When just one ftilt isn't enough...?

[behemoth]

Finally got to play today. As an aside, the game is freaking amazing, and so is our girl Sheik.

I was playing against a Zelda (...BUFFED...) and had great luck with ftilts. However, alot of my ftilt combos were able to be shielded between tilts, or especially before I could finish with a dtilt/dsmash/usmash.

I also couldn't combo with tilts to save my life once Zelda (and others) hit about 70%-90%

So I'm wondering, what bread-and-butter tilt combos are yall using at what percentages?

Thanks,
~Behemoth

[Ankoku]

If they're shielding after the first tilt, grab, of course.

The stuff I was doing was against people who clearly didn't understand the concept of "jump out of fake combos," so I don't know if these actually work, but:
ftilt > jab > grab > uthrow > nair/fair/bair/uair
ftilt > jab > grab > fthrow/bthrow > Needles > edgeguard
ftilt > dsmash
ftilt > jab > dsmash
ftilt > ftilt > ftilt > lol
dtilt > ftilt > whatever
dtilt > jab > ftilt > jab > dtilt (shield pressure thing, alternate jabs between tilts)
ftilt > fair (150%+)

Also, be sure to use different attacks sometime, because abusing ftilt early will just lead to stale moves killing your knockback later. This is good for KO %'s, because it'll have little enough knockback for you to combo into an aerial, but bad for when you still want to combo them if you've completely reduced your ftilt to the equivalent of a slow jab.

[behemoth]

Nice!

Never thought about using the jab! I will bring that in to combos. And duh, I really should have been grabbing more. I need to break some Melee habits, especially using dthrow.

And absolutely nothing I've experienced in Brawl before is nearly as satisfying as a fair kill.

Also, Sheik mains need to get really comfy off the edge.

[BentoBox]

Also, be sure to use different attacks sometime, because abusing ftilt early will just lead to stale moves killing your knockback later.

Should one really care about f-tilt's knockback though?

[Greenpoe]

Would this work?
F-tilt->Jab->grab->f-tilt->jab->grab

[Ankoku]

Should one really care about f-tilt's knockback though?

Yes, eventually. ftilt's knockback and hitstun is enough to combo for a while, but on the sixth or so hit, it deals 2% damage and doesn't lift them into the air enough for you to do anything except grab, because they'll have the time to shield and possibly even hit you back before you think of grabbing.

[behemoth]

Do needles (charging or discharging) reverse move decay like A attacks?

I understand what you mean about ftilts decaying... I guess I forgot that while I was playing.

I think if you use two ftilts per combo, with some other moves between combos, it should hold hit decay at bay enough to allow them to still be effective.

One thing I'm wondering about is, do you incorporate fairs at low percentages? It was likely only hit decay, but sometimes they could recover and hit me on the way down before my ending lag stopped.

[daemonk]

you can do a lot after the ftilt. A usual game with sheik is build up damage to about 120-140 then kill by up smash or forward smash.

The up smash is probably your best bet for now. It wasn't used heavily in melee so people don't expect it.

[behemoth]

The sliding usmash from dash is supremely sexy.

But yeah, Sheik's whole game now is "can I get them to 120%-140% before they get me to 70%-100%".

I love it.

[Ankoku]

Fairs at low %s are risky. I've managed to combo fair into another aerial before they could respond most of the time, but otherwise it's weak enough for them to hit you back.

I don't know about the needles negating stale moves, but I'll be sure to check on it when I get the game next week. I do know that grab attacks and jabs will take some stale move decay off of your tilts/aerials, though.

[RyokoYaksa]

Needles will factor into Stale Move calculation just like any other move. But you have to hit and damage with them, there's no difference in that.

Every single laser Fox hits you with, replenishes his other attacks just like any other move. Isn't that grand?

[behemoth]

yep, Fox just has it all.

But I guess this means now it's crucial to keep some needles charged up. The question is: does every needle that hits count towards removing decay?

I'll try to figure that out when I get the game.