I'm glad skeik got "nerfed"

[behemoth]

Sheik is a ninja. In melee, she was a broken ninja. Now, she's just a ninja. I, for one, am glad for the changes. I'm sick of seeing everyone and their brother using sheik because of her "broken" nature.

Her new playstyle relies far more on her unique, quick movements and viperlike strikes.

Here's to all of you who will still travel the path of the ninja.

May all your bairs be KO's, and your enemies melt away before you, shadow warriors.

[Pokec]

this is so stupid.

you know, there are so many sheik haters out there, just because shes "broken"

hell, who CARES. if you play as sheik, then good for you! you're at that advantage!

if you're constantly getting kicked on by sheik, then why dont you whine about the other broken characters in melee? (ex: Marth)

honestly, sheik wasnt the most stellar character in melee.

boy i get angry.

[BentoBox]

Sheik is a ninja. In melee, she was a broken ninja. Now, she's just a ninja. I, for one, am glad for the changes. I'm sick of seeing everyone and their brother using sheik because of her "broken" nature.

Her new playstyle relies far more on her unique, quick movements and viperlike strikes.

Here's to all of you who will still travel the path of the ninja.

May all your bairs be KO's, and your enemies melt away before you, shadow warriors.

You are as much of a tool as the people you described in your first paragraph, sorry.

[behemoth]

Umm, I think you may have missed my point.

Now we don't have to hear about the "brokenness", there are no more johns. The other advantage is that not everyone and their brother is going to want to play Sheik.

Did I misunderstand you or did you misunderstand me?

[behemoth]

You are as much of a tool as the people you described in your first paragraph, sorry.

Thanks for responding to a lighthearted post with such vitriol. You sir, are cool.


No, really. I am sorry I felt the need to joke around, to post something other than "ZOMG, I found a new tech1!!"

[BentoBox]

The other advantage is that not everyone and their brother is going to want to play Sheik.

Why do you even care about who other people choose to main? How is the fact that a character may become unpopular an advantage? What exactly are you gaining? You're as special as the people who chose to main Low tiers in melee to stand out.

[Pokec]

not everyone plays Sheik just to KO people...

[behemoth]

Why do you even care about who other people choose to main? How is the fact that a character may become unpopular an advantage? What exactly are you gaining? You're as special as the people who chose to main Low tiers in melee to stand out.

Because I am sick and tired to death of hearing **** every time I tell someone I main Sheik.

And you're an *******. Why would you attack me for a freaking post that is obviously not meant to be taken seriously? I mean, I said something like "warriors of the shadow"... COME ON!

If something seems to epic to be serious, it probably is.

My basic point is that Sheiks new moveset forces Sheik players to really learn her little advantages and quirks. They have to invest more in her than "ftilt ftilt fair".

I for one think thats cool. If you don't, and feel the need to flame and attack me for it, you can bite me.

[SeventhSage]

CHARACTER-----MELEE------BRAWL
Zelda--------------Bottom-----Great
Sheik--------------Broken------Great

I'm glad with what happened with them, I think it's how it should've always been! Now people will stop switching into Zelda just because of Farore's Wind and her Fair/Bair; and people will stop *****ing on how Sheik is a broken *****. People who will win with Zelda/Sheik will truly shine for their gaming style.

Zelda/Sheik for the win..

[BentoBox]

Because I am sick and tired to death of hearing **** every time I tell someone I main Sheik.


Stop playing sh!t people.

[Green & Watch]

this is so stupid.

you know, there are so many sheik haters out there, just because shes "broken"

hell, who CARES. if you play as sheik, then good for you! you're at that advantage!

if you're constantly getting kicked on by sheik, then why dont you whine about the other broken characters in melee? (ex: Marth)

honestly, sheik wasnt the most stellar character in melee.

boy i get angry.

You sir, are a ****ing idiot.

Whine about another character who's broken?
The fact of the matter is that while Marth is pretty gay, nothing compares to the skillessness of almost all sheik players. Marth while being hard for many to fight, takes some thought process.

Anyone who has a basic idea of how to hold a controller can play effectively as Sheik. She is indisputably the gayest character in the entire game, there is nothing you or anyone else could ever say that would convince me otherwise.

Also, I believe the people who care would be those being killed by the many scrubby Sheiks, including you.

[Ankoku]

My basic point is that Sheiks new moveset forces Sheik players to really learn her little advantages and quirks. They have to invest more in her than "ftilt ftilt fair".
Actually, that's a real combo in Brawl. lol
Sheik's ftilts are actually really ****ed good now.

nothing compares to the skillessness of almost all sheik players
Peach. Dsmash, fthrow, bair, turnips. No L-Canceling required. Discuss.

[Greenpoe]

You sir, are a ****ing idiot.

Whine about another character who's broken?
The fact of the matter is that while Marth is pretty gay, nothing compares to the skillessness of almost all sheik players. Marth while being hard for many to fight, takes some thought process.

Anyone who has a basic idea of how to hold a controller can play effectively as Sheik. She is indisputably the gayest character in the entire game, there is nothing you or anyone else could ever say that would convince me otherwise.

Also, I believe the people who care would be those being killed by the many scrubby Sheiks, including you.

Calm. Down. Sheik takes more technical skill in a serious match than Marth.
Sheik's aerials-Small hitboxes.
Marth's-Gigantic hitboxes, a decent Marth will OWN Sheik in the air
Marth's F-smash-KO's at 150%
Sheik's smashes-weak.
Marth's tilts-Fast, deadly when paired right with his aerials and f smash.
Sheik's tilts-decent, but predictable. Not disjointed like all Marth's moves.

[Ankoku]

Um, what? Marth's fsmash can kill at a much lower % than 150%, if you get the tipper hit. And Sheik's smashes may have weak knockback, but the dsmash is pretty quick and abusable. Sheik's tilts all COMBO INTO HER AERIALS AND HAVE 3-FRAME STARTUP TIME. That doesn't seem only "decent" and "predictable" to me.

You're making Marth sound completely broken and Sheik sound low-tier.

[goodkid]

Sheik won't be bad. She is still pretty fast. Her metagame will just be changed to more hit and run tactics.

[BentoBox]

KDJ is so sexy (http://www.stage6.com/user/BigDz/video/2255090/KDJ-(Sheik)-vs-Nuro-(Pit))

The Pit wasn't stellar but then again it's funny to see how easily his recovery gets gimped =p

[Green & Watch]

Peach. Dsmash, fthrow, bair, turnips. No L-Canceling required. Discuss.

Do you think anyone who plays Sheik has the ability to think of doing something so smart in a match? I don't. While that all works fine and easily, so does popping someone into the air with nearly any move and then proceeding to Fair.

Very easy stuff. Discuss?

[BentoBox]

Let's discuss the number of high level tournaments you've won with Sheik.

[Green & Watch]

Let's discuss the number of high level tournaments you've won with Sheik.

Me?


10fastcars

[Greenpoe]

No one cares how many tournies you've won. If Sheik were that good, she'd be top tier. She's not. End of story.

[BentoBox]

Yes.

I don't really care about how badly you get owned at your local bi-weeklies by Sheik players, fact is, playing Sheik at a high level takes more skill than you're giving them credit for.

edit: ^sheik was top tier until just recently actually.

[Green & Watch]

I would never lower myself to that kind of level. The argument here was not of my tournament status, but the brokenness that is Sheik. Sheik is broken, go ahead, convince me otherwise.

[Dark Sonic]

Sheik takes tech skill to play competatively-Yes.

Shiek takes as much techskill as Marth-Hell no! Maybe you forgot that spacing is a part of technical skill. Marths deserve their credit too. They specifically had to perfect spacing just to fight Sheik.

[Ankoku]

Do you think anyone who plays Sheik has the ability to think of doing something so smart in a match? I don't. While that all works fine and easily, so does popping someone into the air with nearly any move and then proceeding to Fair.

Very easy stuff. Discuss?

Smart? It takes a ridiculously smart person to be able to use a grand total of four moves? Sorry, but I don't argue with people who can somehow take an argument and say something completely different about it.

[Green & Watch]

Smart? It takes a ridiculously smart person to be able to use a grand total of four moves? Sorry, but I don't argue with people who can somehow take an argument and say something completely different about it.

I said 'has the ability to do something so smart?", I never implied they had to be a genius. Comprehend speech more please.

Also, I simply posed a counter-argument, I felt it was necessary since what I said pretty much covered the argument you posed.

[Ankoku]

I guess you're right, those Sheik players who play as skill-less as you say weren't smart enough to pick Peach and play with even less skill. :V

[Green & Watch]

I guess you're right, those Sheik players who play as skill-less as you say weren't smart enough to pick Peach and play with even less skill. :V

I'm sorry. I forgot everyone who isn't peach was a fast faller and therefor is open to being pwnd by her down smash. Peach takes much more skill than Sheik. Anyone with some shred of cognitive ability can play Sheik. I'll let you believe otherwise though, you seem to be a very stubborn person. I pity thee, fool.

[Ankoku]

Anyone with some shred of cognitive ability can play Sheik.
You're right, anyone with some shred of cognitive ability can hold a Gamecube controller and perform attacks in SSBM. This is a fact.

Problem with it is, it doesn't win them anything except games against really bad Smash players. At least, that's my experience when it came to somehow getting my auto-bye matchups against that kind of Sheik player.

[Green & Watch]

You're right, anyone with some shred of cognitive ability can hold a Gamecube controller and perform attacks in SSBM. This is a fact.

Problem with it is, it doesn't win them anything except games against really bad Smash players. At least, that's my experience when it came to somehow getting my auto-bye matchups against that kind of Sheik player.

See now you digress from the point, ironic ain't it?

Also, it's called sarcasm.

I'm done in this thread, you obviously have no intention on holding a serious debate.

[Dark Sonic]

In high level tournament play, Sheik has her fair share of trouble. I only argued above that Sheik take less technical skill. It still takes quite a bit of mental capacity to get inside the range of a good Marth or to space out a Fox.

[Green & Watch]

I agree with you on everything you just said, but not everyone uses fox and Marth, two viable Sheik counters.

[Ankoku]

How can I hold a serious debate when there's no debate to start with? Sheik, Peach, and Marth are all characters that can be played extremely "cheap" at low levels of play. None of these "cheap" ways of playing them actually require much thought (Peach: dsmash dsmash, nair or bair if hit upward, throw turnips if they're far away; Sheik: dash attack/dthrow/ftilt to fair; Marth: fsmash fsmash fsmash rofl) but give instant results against players who don't know how to deal with them. The point I was trying to make is that Sheik is not the only character who can be played "effectively" without need for much, if any, skill.

EDIT: Also, Marth is not a viable Sheik counter. lol

[behemoth]

Hey hey now, don't leave the thread just because of one person.

Basically all I was saying is that I think it will take more dedication to Sheik to be effective with her now, and that makes me happy. Jeez, didn't know I was an idiot or tool for thinking so.

Basically that's the debate (the dedication thing, not my being a tool, apparently the committee's already voted on that one ;)).

She will be a combo genius in this iteration of our favorite game, but I believe that given her reduction in the number of KO moves she has, it will take more dedication to play her at a high level.

And I hope this doesn't further digress into a character flame war, I'm just talking about two versions of the same character.

@Bento: You're right about playing less ****ty players, I'm going to have to make more trips farther to Brawl tournies to avoid hearing johns about da ninja.

Anyways, I was kinda hoping for this to be an encouraging thread to anyone who was going to give up on sheik. Guess I missed the mark.

Sorry guys :urg:

[BentoBox]

edit: online should be a godsend for you :O

I would never lower myself to that kind of level. The argument here was not of my tournament status, but the brokenness that is Sheik. Sheik is broken, go ahead, convince me otherwise.

And why not? Yes, she's the easiest high tier to pick up by far. But you seem to think that any kid could play Sheik and win tourneys effortlessly.

^

[Green & Watch]

How can I hold a serious debate when there's no debate to start with? Sheik, Peach, and Marth are all characters that can be played extremely "cheap" at low levels of play. None of these "cheap" ways of playing them actually require much thought (Peach: dsmash dsmash, nair or bair if hit upward, throw turnips if they're far away; Sheik: dash attack/dthrow/ftilt to fair; Marth: fsmash fsmash fsmash rofl) but give instant results against players who don't know how to deal with them. The point I was trying to make is that Sheik is not the only character who can be played "effectively" without need for much, if any, skill.

EDIT: Also, Marth is not a viable Sheik counter. lol

I see a good Marth a counter for a good Sheik. A well placed Fsmash will out range any of Sheiks attacks beside the needle.

Regardless, Marth and Peach take more skill then Sheik.

[Ankoku]

Anyways, I was kinda hoping for this to be an encouraging thread to anyone who was going to give up on sheik. Guess I missed the mark.

Sorry guys :urg:

A more encouraging remark would've been that Sheik is still playable, which she is. In fact, I'm still of the belief that she's a very good character in Brawl, though her two main KO moves (dsmash and fair) have been weakened.

I see a good Marth a counter for a good Sheik. A well placed Fsmash will out range any of Sheiks attacks beside the needle.
An fsmash is only decently fast on the startup and has quite a bit of lag afterward if it misses. As I recall, Sheik has this thing called speed. A well-placed bair will out-prioritize Marth's stock.

Regardless, Marth and Peach take more skill then Sheik.
To do what? Win a game against Bowser with? I mean, what are you trying to make a point of? The only characters that take any amount of skill to play as at a low level are the ones without fast smash attacks or obvious combos.

[behemoth]

I see a good Marth a counter for a good Sheik. A well placed Fsmash will out range any of Sheiks attacks beside the needle.

Regardless, Marth and Peach take more skill then Sheik.

How in the hell would you quantify such a thing? Please, tell me.

Effective spacing can be picked up just as easily as Sheik combos by watching a pro vid or two.

Float cancelling, I'll admit, does take a fair amount of skill. However, I don't understand how you can quantify the actual difference.

By all means show me.

(not being sarcastic, by the way, just waiting patiently :))

Edit: Ankoku, that's actually what I was trying to go for. I feel Sheik has a lot of depth that will now HAVE to be felt out by a mainer to bring her close to her full potential. By no means do I feel her potential to have lessened greatly.

Sorry if I was unclear.

[Green & Watch]

There's nothing to quantify, Correct spacing at least requires some effort. Whereas tilting someone a **** load of times into either a chain grab or just into a Fair is so easy.

[Ankoku]

Correct spacing requires no effort if the Sheik is just tilting a ****load of time.

[Green & Watch]

This is going no where, nor will it ever. Nothing towards you, Behemoth. But definitely something towards Ankoku.


Bye. Good luck too all those who stick through and use a new, well balanced Sheik. Happy smashing. :)