Marth's Comboability: The search for new combos.

[Emblem Lord]

Ok, now that we all know long combos really don't exist in this game, the Marth community needs to get it in gear and look for smaller combos that can aid Marth in racking up damage.

We already know his Dancing Blade is solid, but what else?

The people that have the game need to start testing things out. Some characters cancel their jab with a with a shield and then do something else. Ike can jab jab shield cancel to D-smash and it combos. We need to test this kinda stuff out with Marth and see if he can do the same. I truly believe that characters who can abuse jab cancelling will get a huge boost in how good they are.

We also need to test that out with d-tilt. It can combo into itself, but can it combo into anything else?

An F-smash maybe?

Can Dancing Blade lead to anything else?

Can that be shield cancelled?

Also what about Marth's throws? Do they lead to anything and at what percents?

This is the stuff that needs to be figured out. Not trying to find a Ken combo that no longer exist, but new combos.

As combos are posted I will add them to this post.

[RenX]

You know i wish you guys would look at the fact that Combos are not out they just are not BROKEN anymore

[icraq]

Just going to continuously edit this as I test them out. Keep an eye on this post.

1 Non tippered Fair to uair to utilt. works almost every time, percent below 50% is best, it just needs to connect. uair to utilt works at mostly below 70%. followed the utilt with a bair (not guaranteed if they can airdodge)

2 dtilt to fsmash 0% furthest possible spacing = fsmash tips. 30% extremely close dtilt to fsmash will tip. (great if they're near the ledge)

3 "iffy combo" forward b in the air into toadstool jump into down air. i have no idea if this works on real people, i just did it on a cpu, though. explanation: forward B sends you up in the air if you use it after a jump while moving up, when you're falling it wont work, and only once, which gives you enough room to jump on their face and dair them at the same time. the toadstool jump stuns them (it's a meteor smash) so that's how the dair gets in there.

4 fthrow, dthrow, uthrow, bthrow, can all be immediately air dodged afterwards. it's kind of dangerous fthrowing people at low percents since they don't go that far, and can usually hit you immediately.

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

iceaq: Are you sure? That didn't work in melee, and that was when we had way more stun.

Also the final dancing blade strike apparently isn't safe. Mew2King posted that a lvl. 9 Marth
CPU up b'd out of it.

[icraq]

iceaq: Are you sure? That didn't work in melee, and that was when we had way more stun.

Also the final dancing blade strike apparently isn't safe. Mew2King posted that a lvl. 9 Marth
CPU up b'd out of it.

Positive, even with DI it works. It's my most used combo. (if you're referring to fair to uair to utilt) However, the fair has to be non tippered for it to work. Even if you miss the fair, uair to utilt will always work.

Also, hate to say M2K is wrong, but I have to believe his timing was off on that dancing blade. If it's done perfectly, there's no way to get out of it. At least, not if they're all forward B's. I've been testing it on cpus, and they do attack out of it if I mess up the rhythm, but not if it's done perfectly.

[Emblem Lord]

You know i wish you guys would look at the fact that Combos are not out they just are not BROKEN anymore

Seriously just don't post in this thread if you are going to be like that.

We all know that Brawl's engine prevents long combos.

We have to change the way we look at comboing in Brawl. If you have nothing to contribute then stay the hell out of my thread.

I don't feel like dealing with this.

[Meljin]

Grab forward => Grab up => Mindgames & AUA, and repeat aua as possible can rape up 30% or more :)

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Also, hate to say M2K is wrong, but I have to believe his timing was off on that dancing blade. If it's done perfectly, there's no way to get out of it. At least, not if they're all forward B's. I've been testing it on cpus, and they do attack out of it if I mess up the rhythm, but not if it's done perfectly.

I thought he was talking about after the down b combo had already started, so during the repeating slashes. Unless I misunderstood something here?

[Warlock*G]

We all know that Brawl's engine prevents long combos.

We have to change the way we look at comboing in Brawl.

Are more-than-3hits combos even possible? And from what I've seen, even those "combos" aren't guaranteed cuz of DI.

When you said that we need to "change the way we look at comboing in Brawl", it gave me an idea. In fact, I think I'm just now formulating an idea that had been lingering in my mind. That is, I suggest we should now look at combos as being more selective, working only on specific characters.

For example, now that we know (obviously) that fthrow+tippered fsmash works better on big, heavy characters, we need those kind of killing combos for more floaty characters, plus combos for small characters that aren't as floaty, etc. Hell, we may even need to adjust combos according to specific characters!

That is the reason, I think, why the metagame will take a little time to unravel itself. Because of character-specific combos, which weren't as prevalent in Melee.

I hope I summed up my opinion adequately... Boy my English is horrible.

[Emblem Lord]

I think the opposite is true.

More generic combos since fall speeds no long play a role in combos.

[Warlock*G]

I think the opposite is true.

More generic combos since fall speeds no long play a role in combos.

Awwwww... and there I was hopeful... :urg:

Nope, size isn't a strong enough variable to diversify combos by itself... but isn't there another one, *besides* the diminishing returns of repeated moves along with weight?

...

G's list of series that have been "dumbed down" in the last few years:
-Thief
-The Elder Scrolls
-Smash Bros :(

...

Good night I guess.

[Crizthakidd]

are we not able to combo because of the low gravity, stun or some other factor?

[Ken34]

are we not able to combo because of the low gravity, stun or some other factor?

the hitstun, most characters dont have decent combos at this point in time, cause alot of moves have like no hit stun, so you can air dodge immediately after almost any move that pops you up.

as for combos, i got off fthrow--->tipper fsmash on a human player, maybe bad DI from the player?

I also got off SH double fair--->tipper fsmash....

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

the hitstun, most characters dont have decent combos at this point in time, cause alot of moves have like no hit stun, so you can air dodge immediately after almost any move that pops you up.

as for combos, i got off fthrow--->tipper fsmash on a human player, maybe bad DI from the player?

I also got off SH double fair--->tipper fsmash....

Hitstun means something different. In fact, hitstun is much higher on many attacks, making DI easier. What you mean is stun time. (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218)

[Irow]

I thought he was talking about after the down b combo had already started, so during the repeating slashes. Unless I misunderstood something here?

It's possible because Marth's Up B is invincible through the first five frames. If a move had less than two frames of hitstun, it would be possible to Up B through it. I'm quite sure the only one slow enough to dodge is the last one going down.

A Marth combo that I've done is a weakened fair into a full power tipped Nair.

What we should be looking at is how to actually abuse stale move negation into Marth's favor, I believe that the Marth's metagame will evolve around careful abuse of that system. For example, Marth's non-tipped weakened fair can lead into a nair, which is actually a really good move to get a person off. We all know what to do to a person once they're off the stage.

We're also underestimating Marth's ground game, it isn't bad. His Dancing Blade is amazing move, I'm also quite sure that if you stale it out, you could lead into another move.

It would be amazing if somebody figured out a way to cancel out the forward b. Also, don't try to chain more than two fairs if your fairs are still quite powerful, you normally won't connect.

All in all, I don't care if it's M2K or anyone else saying it, Marth's metagame will improve with Brawl - not be impeded by it. Marth will grow just as much as any other character in the game. I will make sure of that; laugh if you will.

[MoldinMindz]

Due to the floatiness of brawl there will be a greater emphasis placed on all characters jumping waay off the stage to gimp whoever is trying to recover. Marth's new fair has much more horizontal knockback than in melee, and when I played brawl I noticed it was more useful as a kill move, rather than a setup move. I think we should be focusing more on "off the stage edguarding" than continuing to be frustrated with the loss of the old melee combos.