Ask me about Fox in Brawl.

[mikeHAZE]

I've played nothing but Fox in Brawl yet, and play with my friends a few times a week, so if anybody has any questions about Fox in Brawl, feel free to ask and i'll get back to you.

Here's a couple matches from a tournament a few weeks ago.

mikeHAZE Vs. Jopez R1 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3NZ5hJDF9l0)

mikeHAZE Vs. Jopez R2
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=TK1c6qxD21c)

mikeHAZE Vs. Nes R1 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xyMXn_HXAio)

mikeHAZE Vs. Nes R2
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=xyBAulntQno)

[Iraqnaphobic]

well i was wondering how you like fox so far

[Ghettoman]

i was wondering if you could shff all moves, like the lasers and neutral a.

[mikeHAZE]

shffling lasers doesn't work, since there b moves aren't auto canceled anymore, so there is lag after it, but you can fast fall

[Popuri]

nice videos and Fox you got there. n_n)b

[-Shion-]

Is Fox still as fast as he was in melee?

(without his fall speed, just his overall speed)

[Nigguh-witta-attitude]

How "nerfed" is his up smash, if it's bad, does he have any other finishing moves now?

[JhMS]

Does nair+shine works well?I heard this a lot and I need confirmation.
Thanks BTW.

[Layupfreak]

What are some combo's you perform with him now?

[shortwanabelaker]

can fox still do the down throw kill at the edge like he cud in melee

heres a crappy vid of it, it happens at the very end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6H6f_mvYl8

anyone know? it was fun to use on noobs who dont know about DI (altho its pretty obvious)

10 characters

[-Shion-]

What are some combo's you perform with him now?


Pretty much the same things from melee....

[mikeHAZE]

Is Fox still as fast as he was in melee?

(without his fall speed, just his overall speed)


No, he's slower now, especially when you compare him to characters like Sonic.

What are some combo's you perform with him now?


Downair to Uptilt works amazingly well, just make sure you land your DAIR behind them, so you can't get shield grabbed since SG'ing is pretty broken.

Does nair+shine works well?I heard this a lot and I need confirmation.
Thanks BTW.

Shine is TERRIBLE in this game, nair shine might work, but it's dumb to do that when you have other options like grabbing.

How "nerfed" is his up smash, if it's bad, does he have any other finishing moves now?

Upsmash is still really good, from the matches i uploaded, it was the 2nd day playing the game for me, so basically i just spammed upsmashes. Running upsmashes, Upsmashes out of shield, everything.

As for killing moves, back air works great, upsmash, and fsmash if you can land it.

[Skater Trainer]

I heard fox was a awesome character in melee, how has he changed in brawl, for better or worse.

[mikeHAZE]

for the worse.

[super_bacon807]

Do you think that Fox's Fair will a useful move now?

[Skater Trainer]

for the worse.

Ok how bad did he change?

[super_bacon807]

From what I've seen and read, his main killing moves (Usmash, Uair, Bair) have been nerfed. His shine's been badly nerfed as well (though it can still shine spike, kinda).

I still see Fox being pretty good, though.

[Skater Trainer]

I'm new to ssb so I'll have to test everyone out and see what works with me best and fox is looking good for me, since I used to use him when I went to my friends house and played there.

[jay~B]

I was wondering if he still has that aerial move when he kicks alot, sorry don't know the move names, I just do them

[super_bacon807]

Yeah, that's Fox still Fair. It wasn't really useful in Melee, but I've seen that it's better in Brawl.

[JhMS]

Any notes about the infinite shine?
Also,your videos are pretty good.
Thanks!

[controlfreak7]

Hope u don't mind me helping saw some questions that i knew the answers to.


Do you think that Fox's Fair will a useful move now?
I've used it before its good when u can land it i guess. I think its best use would be if you're underneath a panel and trying to fair someone on the panel. That seems to help get in all the hits.
Ok how bad did he change?
He got worse mainly because the physics of the game have changed. Also because there's no wavedash and that was one of the key tricks to a lot of his combos.

From what I've seen and read, his main killing moves (Usmash, Uair, Bair) have been nerfed. His shine's been badly nerfed as well (though it can still shine spike, kinda).

I still see Fox being pretty good, though.
If you haven't heard about the recent discovery it makes everything make much more sense. If you check out the advanced techs sticky in the general brawl discussion u'll see that all moves get nerfed in damage and knockback if you use them constantly (even if you don't hit anyone with them). So if you continuously try to hit with his u-smash and continuously miss and finally hit him the reduction might cause his u-smash to not kill. This same idea may be the reason behind the fact that matches take much longer. His u-air is still good even if not for killing for comboing at least. His bair is fine to me its just more difficult to hit with.

I've gotten some solid shine spikes with fox its definitely still possible. Im not sure if you always need to edgehog the shine, but its overall harder to shinespike. Personally i believe its because the hitbox is sort of confusing and because falling speed makes it harder to land quickly.

I was wondering if he still has that aerial move when he kicks alot, sorry don't know the move names, I just do them
Yah its the fair like someone answered earlier he still has it and if anything it has improved. i've seen a video where it kills but im positive its main use is not to kill. I think u might be talking about the dair and yes that is still in and good for comboing because it has no post lag.

Any notes about the infinite shine?
Also,your videos are pretty good.
Thanks!

I heard it is escapable through di and is difficult to initiate during matches.

As for combos and the shine this is what ive found about them. The shine is good to use to knock the opponent back, but never plan on attempting a combo to follow it up. Its like a "back the **** up" push. Fox's staple combo like i posted is dair to u-tilt like mike said and also like he said when u land it try to end up behind them. I'm not sure if the opponent can escape after one u-tilt or you can juggle them at low percentages, but i've been able to juggle like 2-3 u-tilts and then land an u-smash which is really good then try to get in an aerial. Like i said earlier doing the shine out of aerials is good for pushing back so if you do something like miss an aerial and you don't think the u-tilt will hit, shine them instead.

As you all know about the shine stalling in the air (or j-shine or whatever you want to call it) I found one good offensive use for it. Lets say your opponent is on a panel and you jump up to them and jump a little above them and they shield. What they are thinking is you are going to come straight down with an aerial and they will just shield grab u. So what you do is you shine them (when u are close enough to them to hit them with the shine, but stay out of their grabbing range) and then immediately do an aerial out of the shine to hit them after they miss their shield grab.

Hope that helped.

[Goldkirby]

I could've sworn that moves only lost knockback when you actually did damage with them, not when you hit a shield or whiff. Did something change between last week and now?

[mikeHAZE]

Hope u don't mind me helping saw some questions that i knew the answers to.

Well George, I would really prefer to have myself or somebody who has more experience with the game to answer questions, from my understanding you've only played the game a few times.

But thank you for the offer.

[kobefox2485]

is fox great compared to most characters???

[mikeHAZE]

Any notes about the infinite shine?
Also,your videos are pretty good.
Thanks!

I haven't tried it, but i'm pretty sure it doesn't work since jumping out of shine isn't possible, but i'm not 100% on this, i'll found out for sure later.


I was wondering if he still has that aerial move when he kicks alot, sorry don't know the move names, I just do them

Yes, that's his forward aerial.

It was terrible in Melee, but is now a pretty decent move if you hit correctly. If your opponent is in the air, you can land multiple hits with this.

Ok how bad did he change?

In all reality, Fox is only worse because he was such a good character in Melee, or so it seems to me at this point. I mean he's not top tier level like before, but i think he'll still be considered up there.

[controlfreak7]

I could've sworn that moves only lost knockback when you actually did damage with them, not when you hit a shield or whiff. Did something change between last week and now?

I think u're right about that according to the post made by the finder, but i noticed something in the video.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD3MikWWxI4

He uses the fair a total of 8 times before he sweetspots it (the ninth time) and he uses multiple attacks in between.

He uses the fair 3 times (hitting it all 3) the next attack he lands is an f-smash, misses a fair, lands an f-smash, forward b, forward b, reflects an arrow, reflects another arrow, then hits with the fair again, f-smash, then a fair, and then he hits with the last (sweetspotted fair).

Missed attacks supposedly do not recharge and also supposedly don't decrease fairs so considering this, he missed 3 of his fairs so he hit with the fair 5 times before sweetspotting it the 6th time. He does 5 attacks that hit (meaning it should have recharged significantly but not sure how much), then he does it another time (diminishing), then f-smashes (recharge), then he lands a fair, and then he sweetspots a fair.

To me it did not seem that after doing those several attacks in between it should have diminished that significantly. It really depends on the numbers i guess.

the % that the attack diminishes might resemble some kind of pattern to how powerful it is. the first 2 times it does 4% (but the 2nd time should have had less kb regardless), then the 3rd time it does 3%. After having done several moves that should recharge, it still did 3% the next 2 times. Now if there's a pattern to kb and damage then if I'm right the kb on the attack shouldn't have diminished that significantly.

The last hit dealt 16% and the original damage would have been 21% so it lost 5%. He does and f-smash and an f-tilt and when he hits with his fair again before dying he does 3% again.

He lands 3 then does 6 attacks that should mean that it should have negated or nearly negated the diminishment. Idk weird stuff. I just wish a video was posted about it. But as far as i'm concerned,the guy says that the attack must hit opponents and damage them in order to diminish.

Anyway sorry mike for answering the questions.

[-Shion-]

So... Our Foxie has been... normalized??

NOO!!!!

Then again, so has everyone else.... right?

I mean, he is still a threat in the ring, right?

[mikeHAZE]

lets hope so.

[-Shion-]

I quote myself, he still seems to have the potential to be at the top.

Then again, so do a whole bunch of other characters.

[mikeHAZE]

well it's too soon to tell who will come at the top, but right now metaknight and marth are looking good.

[BinAly]

Mike, do you really think that the Reflector is that much useless ofencively?

From my experience (about 15 hours of Gameplay with Fox), the "Shine" was really nerfed due to the removal of the WaveDash, but it is still very good. It has less range and a different timing, but I can see a lot of potential in it.

[OTRU...]

dude mike, fox got so nerfed i doubt ill play with him as my main its soo gay how hes not good anymore, his shine is completely useless (except for doing infinites in a corner)

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Mike, do you really think that the Reflector is that much useless ofencively?

From my experience (about 15 hours of Gameplay with Fox), the "Shine" was really nerfed due to the removal of the WaveDash, but it is still very good. It has less range and a different timing, but I can see a lot of potential in it.

There's no point in doing a move that cannot kill, combo, or setup well. Shine could do all three in melee due to wavedashing out of the shine, and in Brawl it does none of the three, due to WD's removal.

[ShortFuse]

How can you say Fox is worse and the shine is useless? Fox is the same, if not better than he was in Melee. Of course he's slower, everyone is slower, but he's attack speed is the fastest in the game, faster than Sonic. Sonic's run speed is faster, sure. I'm sorry, mikeHAZE but you really weren't using Fox's full potential.

No use of Dash A, no use of Shine, no drillshine or fAir which is his best aerial. You short hop laser were too early and you shot too high. No use of dTilt into Aerial combo. No dSmash. No fTilt. No uTilt spam.
It was all just fSmash, uSmash, nAir and Blaster. You're not using his full array of moves and it's really too early for you to say Fox is no good. Give him more time and widen out your moveset. Check out my Fox video thread and you'll see what I mean. I don't think there's a move I don't use. bAir being least used since it's so much post-attack lag, despite its strength.

And shine is still as amazing as it was smash, in fact, it's better since you can repeated spam and now you don't have to cancel with your jump.

[Habanero Pepper]

Could you give me the percentages that fox's Usmash kills each character.

Also, would you say fox can fight MK and pit well thanks to his upward kills? I mean, assuming we still wind up using Green Greens and Yoshi Story gets unbanned, he might be a great counter to them both since they die pretty easily off the top.

[-Shion-]

How can you say Fox is worse and the shine is useless? Fox is the same, if not better than he was in Melee. Of course he's slower, everyone is slower, but he's attack speed is the fastest in the game, faster than Sonic. Sonic's run speed is faster, sure. I'm sorry, mikeHAZE but you really weren't using Fox's full potential.

No use of Dash A, no use of Shine, no drillshine or fAir which is his best aerial. You short hop laser were too early and you shot too high. No use of dTilt into Aerial combo. No dSmash. No fTilt. No uTilt spam.
It was all just fSmash, uSmash, nAir and Blaster. You're not using his full array of moves and it's really too early for you to say Fox is no good. Give him more time and widen out your moveset. Check out my Fox video thread and you'll see what I mean. I don't think there's a move I don't use. bAir being least used since it's so much post-attack lag, despite its strength.

And shine is still as amazing as it was smash, in fact, it's better since you can repeated spam and now you don't have to cancel with your jump.

I kind of agree with you man.


Like you say, Mike, give Fox a litte more time man.
I have noticed the same thing in his videos.

[controlfreak7]

How can you say Fox is worse and the shine is useless? Fox is the same, if not better than he was in Melee. Of course he's slower, everyone is slower, but he's attack speed is the fastest in the game, faster than Sonic. Sonic's run speed is faster, sure. I'm sorry, mikeHAZE but you really weren't using Fox's full potential.

No use of Dash A, no use of Shine, no drillshine or fAir which is his best aerial. You short hop laser were too early and you shot too high. No use of dTilt into Aerial combo. No dSmash. No fTilt. No uTilt spam.
It was all just fSmash, uSmash, nAir and Blaster. You're not using his full array of moves and it's really too early for you to say Fox is no good. Give him more time and widen out your moveset. Check out my Fox video thread and you'll see what I mean. I don't think there's a move I don't use. bAir being least used since it's so much post-attack lag, despite its strength.

And shine is still as amazing as it was smash, in fact, it's better since you can repeated spam and now you don't have to cancel with your jump.

His shine isn't useless because shine spiking is still possible and it has offensive uses, but it can't be comboed with, that was its main purpose in melee. This is totally fine with me because i just replaced it with u-tilt. So overall that definitely a nerf.

Some of your points i do agree with some i don't. His fair is not his best aerial, it is hard to land all the hits with it, it requires good timing and somewhat spacing (in that case its really good) but i still would not say its his best aerial. That goes to his dair which is again the start to combos.

And that criticism over drillshine doesn't make much sense to me. It was always a combo starter in melee and since it can't really do that in brawl (since you can't do anything immediately after a shine) so its not really a staple combo to every fox regardless of style like it was in melee. Not to say that it isn't useful or useless just not necessary.
You can't spam with fox's shine (on the ground) definitely not true (especially if you're trying to compare it to jc shining) They shield grab or get away. There is some lag between each shine which doesn't make it as fast as jc shining so even if you did the real question here is why would u want to?


Lasering wasn't a staple in melee either, not every fox player lasered samething can be carried over into brawl. So he didn't get the timing right on it he never said he owned the game. Really not that big of a deal if he missed some shots...

About everything else, your points only show that fox has changed, his style was not adapted to brawl yet in these videos. So what? D-tilt was usable in melee, but may not have been as good as it is in brawl he hasn't had enough time to experiment.

Anyway about the bair im not sure but i think u meant it has more pre lag than his other moves. None the less, it is still fast and I'd say the reason its hard to hit with is because it has a small amount of hitframes. Just takes time imo. Definitely better, but harder to use move.

Note that those videos of Mike were from a tourney a few weeks ago (meaning 2 or more?) so he has more than likely improved since then.

So yah, even if he exaggerated, I would not agree that you are completely on it either, I can definitely say fox has not improved overall.

[mikeHAZE]

dude mike, fox got so nerfed i doubt ill play with him as my main its soo gay how hes not good anymore, his shine is completely useless (except for doing infinites in a corner)

yayyuhhhh mikehaze and tru ^_^

http://a615.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/40/l_1ff037728b05204b68a3eff2e9a0c6de.jpg


oh and idk who said something i haven't read through today but i'm sure it wasn't of anybody or anything of relevance.

[OTRU...]

truuuu, those are some pretty cool cats!

whats ur wii number mike? i dont have brawl yet but ill add u as soon as i get it, gotta get that cali practice!!