If so, who will be better?

[-Shion-]

Since many people are saying that Fox will drop in tier, who will be higher tier than he?

Explain why also, just to know what Fox is missing.

[kobefox2485]

i hope fox stays at the top, if not i think wolf may unfairly pass him. but im gonna main fox and use him at his best to make him top tier. :D

[StealthFighterX]

Early to say but..maybe..diddy? Fox is still good so its hard to say aleast untill we get more deep into the metagame of brawl.

[Locke66]

diddy, pit, dedede, marth, and maybe some others

[StealthFighterX]

I cant see D3 over him cuz fox has better speed. But i can see diddy and maybe marh..*damm marth* Pit..meh maybe...

[-Shion-]

I doubt marth will surpass Fox.

He has been nerfed like a ***** also.

Pit has potential to surpass Fox, but he is not as fast as Fox, so I don't think he will replace him.

[Locke66]

marth hasn't really been nerfed...slightly less sword range, but still fast/powerful

[Layupfreak]

Marth
Toon Link
Wolf
Diddy


Thats all i got so far. ^(^

[Grimwolf]

marth
still has the tip, counter and dancing sword both better. He wasn't nerfed too bad

[BinAly]

Marth has been greatly nerfed, he still is strong, but his range and (most importantly) his Grab were totally nerfed.

His is just good now.

[-Shion-]

Fox has been done the same too eh?^^^

[Grimwolf]

Marth has been greatly nerfed, he still is strong, but his range and (most importantly) his Grab were totally nerfed.

His is just good now.

Marth has not been nerfed nearly as much as Fox was though...

[psykoplympton]

kirby 'nuf ced'

[Rampage]

I doubt marth will surpass Fox.

He has been nerfed like a ***** also.

Pit has potential to surpass Fox, but he is not as fast as Fox, so I don't think he will replace him.

excuse me? Are we talking about the same game? marth is exactly the same minus the grabs. marth will be higher on the list than fox. Maybe They will be in the same tier but marth is higher than fox.

Marth
diddy

the only candidates I believe will be above fox.

[Afro Joe]

Pikmen and Olimar will probly be better judging by there amazing damage,speed and combos

[thespoiler]

I think a lot (I didn't say all) of Fox users are upset about him dropping in the tier list. Truth is, tiers are made not by the game, but by our own minds. If you think JigglyPuff is awesome, and you play her with a winning spirit, chances are you will be successful.

Oh, and they didn't nerf Fox, they balanced him.

[Krytha]

Doesn't look like they... balanced... Marth though...

[thespoiler]

Doesn't look like they... balanced... Marth though...

Well, we'll just have to wait and see. Judging by how much development time has been used just to create this game, I bet the whole roster will be fairly balanced. There will always be a tier list for those who choose a main based on other's opinions, but I don't think we'll really need one this time.

[Gray]

Pit looks overall better. Sure, he's a little slower, but he wins in range, recovery, and has a better projectile. Meta looks like decent competition as well.

[Farlane]

All 3 starfox characters have potential to be top tier IMO. Fox will be top tier almost for sure, he has so many fans from Melee that some people will find ways to make him 1337 since so many players will be using him.

[Kinsei_Kensei]

I think a lot (I didn't say all) of Fox users are upset about him dropping in the tier list. Truth is, tiers are made not by the game, but by our own minds. If you think JigglyPuff is awesome, and you play her with a winning spirit, chances are you will be successful.

Oh, and they didn't nerf Fox, they balanced him.

I completely agree! Though I do believe in tiers (the chances of a Jugglypuff/Purin beating Marth are highly unlikely in imo), they arecompletly based on the fans. For example, in Melee, I usually play as Fox. My two friends, E.J. and Martin, play as Samus and Link respectively. Even though Fox is "Top Tier," and Samus and Link are lower on the scale, its still a challenge for me to fight them. Even with Waveshines and Shine Spikes, they've been playing for too long.

The sad part is when I do beat them, they'll blame it on Fox being a higher tier (they're sore losers). Now that most of the characters have become more balanced, I can beat them without the annoying after taste....

[W.Jr]

its so many possibles of the top tier, but i have to go with pit, metalnight, or marth or samus, etc.

[Piratey_Critter]

Fox has the potential to be top tier, but it's really too early to say.

I'd watch out for Olimar, Toon Link and Marth.

Olimar has huge damage potential, and his meta will likely get crazy (with switching colors and what-not).

Toon Link seems to have very strong air moves, and good combos, as well as projectiles.

Marth cause of his reach and damage.

Again, too early to say.

[Skater Trainer]

I'm new at this, but it seems way too soon to judge who's in what tier. I mean the melee list, as far I know, is still being argued about. So before we start judging who's where on the list, we should give it some time and find what each character can do now.

[-Shion-]

True^^^

Falco and Wolf are pretty decent for their power, and they are also fast for their kind of muscle.

Especially Wolf, but I still believe that Fox will stay a top contender on the battlefield, and will still be looked at as a threat.

A BIG one.

[controlfreak7]

Again as usual, i think people don't understand the meaning of the tier list. Speed has nothing to do with the tier list although it can have an effect on how the tier list is formed. What i mean by this is if the pattern is that if faster characters have a higher tendency of winning on an even playing field, then the faster characters will place higher.

First let me explain what the tier list is. Its a list based on how characters do overall in comparison to other characters.

Here's a summary of how things are determined:
player1 (p1) v. player 2 (p2) NOTE: this is just example nothing more so don't take anything mentioned about specific characters literally.

p1 picks marth
p2 picks pikachu
Assume that both players are even. Based on tournament results, in this matchup the marth is more likely to win despite the fact the players are even. So how marth places in all his match ups against other players with equal level of play, determines where he is on the tier list.

C. falcon was the fastest character in melee, why wasn't he top tier? Again, its not based on advantages/disadvantages, pros/cons, etc. its based purely off results and result are hard evidence, hence the fact that it technically can't be disproven.

Personally i've said this many times, i think brawl is the most balanced game that remains diverse like i've said before. I've seen videos and I notice that i think to myself wow this character is good everytime i see them in action, and I believe i've said that to every character i've seen in videos so far.

So i believe on an even playing field any character is just as likely to win against any character (there's not a difference in likeliness to acheive victory and it goes with all match ups), that's what it looks like to me so far and therefore I don't believe there is a use for the tier list.

All the tier list seems to do is decrease the diversity of characters in the smash community. I personally believe a list developed for characters in any game should show how good the character is based on their advantages/disadvantages and overall potential not results. The problem with this is bias and disagreement based on opinion so we have to go with facts which is found in the results.

And kinsei_kensei, you have to let your friends know that u beating them as a result of fox being in a higher tier can only mean one of 2 things. You are either better or equal to them. It basically means (based on the tier list) that they are definitely not better players than you.

[-Shion-]

I see what you mean.

But I stand by with what I said that he will stay in the top.

Just by judging on the videos I have seen of Fox and other characters, he still has the potential to be a very good character.

Then again, so do the rest...

Which is why Brawl is so COOL!!!!

[wesselvessel]

i know this is super n00b, but... how are tiers decided and is there a list somewhere that i could look at?

[-Shion-]

Tiers are decided depending on how often a character is chosen in tournament battles or vs matches, etc.

A list?

Now why would you need that.

[CurryLad]

if fox is going to drop in tier list, then he will be in the top 3 again once they find new combos with his new shine mechanics.

[controlfreak7]

Tiers are decided depending on how often a character is chosen in tournament battles or vs matches, etc.

A list?

Now why would you need that.

Its not how often a character is chosen, but how well the character does in tournaments.

if fox is going to drop in tier list, then he will be in the top 3 again once they find new combos with his new shine mechanics.

Take my word for it the shine will NOT have any relationship to comboing in brawl, unless your opponent is literally mentally disabled. Sure you can drillshine and nair>shine, but you can't do anything to follow that up.

[L__]

...controlfreak isn't that what we thought about fox in melee? Because i could have sworn that i was told of fox once being in mid/low tier until they finally thought about his speed and his ability to use shines were recognized later.. Sooner or later, we will find mechanics in Brawl that will affect everyone's game play just like in melee. Who knows? maybe we'll find something that will put Fox back into the top of the top of the playing field. All I have to say is behold the power of M2K lol..

[TehBo49]

...controlfreak isn't that what we thought about fox in melee? Because i could have sworn that i was told of fox once being in mid/low tier until they finally thought about his speed and his ability to use shines were recognized later.. Sooner or later, we will find mechanics in Brawl that will affect everyone's game play just like in melee. Who knows? maybe we'll find something that will put Fox back into the top of the top of the playing field. All I have to say is behold the power of M2K lol..
In melee, Fox was never below high tier (check the smashwiki). And your argument that new techniques will be discovered can apply to any character. Trust me, Fox was at the top of the list. He was just begging to be nerfed.

I think he'll probably be in high tier or maybe middle tier but not lower than that. Fox will always be high on the list unless they completely take away his shine & lasers.

[L__]

TehBo, I never said M2K would only find techs for Fox. I said it could happen. Besides, I did say that there would be techs that would effect -everyone-

Reread my post and try not to be so ignorant.

[TehBo49]

TehBo, I never said M2K would only find techs for Fox. I said it could happen. Besides, I did say that there would be techs that would effect -everyone-

Reread my post and try not to be so ignorant.
Oops, I missed that part. Sorry.

Anyway, I think Marth, Falco & MK will be higher on the list. Marth still has tipping & priority. Falco was given better recovery, his spike remains virtually intact (albeit weaker), & he still has SHB to some degree. MK, like Marth, has priority in addition to speed, combo ability, & recovery.

Those are just some; there will probably be a few more.

[-Shion-]

Ike is way too slow to be able to defeat Fox in the Tier list my friend....

And with the nerfs that Marth got....

[pyroroth]

Ike is way too slow to be able to defeat Fox in the Tier list my friend....

And with the nerfs that Marth got....

I hope you're being sarcastic about the marth part. I'm gonna say wolf for top tier cuz he looks awesome.

[CurryLad]

fox is always on the top of my tier list! NO MATTER WHAT!

[-Shion-]

I hope you're being sarcastic about the marth part. I'm gonna say wolf for top tier cuz he looks awesome.

If you haven't noticed, marth DID get some nerfs....

Pretty much everyone in melee did.....

[pyroroth]

If you haven't noticed, marth DID get some nerfs....

Pretty much everyone in melee did.....

He may have gotten some nerfs(sword is shorter).. but he also got buffed(better fair combos, more power from the tipper, faster)... which doesn't make sense