Looks like I actually got to play Brawl.

[Ademisk]

First off, Ness is cool. Everyone who played him in Melee is gonna love the little bugger.


Quick rundown of the moves

Fair: Gonna be using this a lot, as usual. I can't seem to combo it well yet, but it definitely combos. Good knockback, good damage. Much more knockback than Melee, a ****ING LOT more. Good for short hopping AND Rising.

Bair: I don't care if the knock back is lower, I love this son of a *****, always have. Just hit with it, it'll feel good. Best short hopping, but rising is also a possibility. Good damage, probably the most frequent killer despite decreased knockback. I mean...EVERYTHING has decreased knockback in Brawl.

Dair: ****ING SLOW. ****ING POWERFUL. I love this move so much it's not funny. Has a gigantic learning curve, just like Melee dair, but it's super good. Plus, it's hard for the enemy to predict it, because its loading frames don't neccessarily look much like a dair.

Uair: Large learning curve, the timing is just different than Melee. Rising uair into uair is a possible combo, as is rising uair into PK Thunder.

Nair: Beautiful, of course. Melee version, almost no difference. Love.

Yoyos are good, hard to learn, good combos.

Bat: First off, learn to foxtrot, then master fox trotting, then work on your foxtrotting mindgames. Then the bat will be useful. Also....

THE ENTIRE BAT IS A REFLECTING HITBOX!!!!!!! ^_^

PK Fire: Really good, it...drops a bit if it's on the ground, so you have to use it in close range or in the air. If it hits, and the enemy doesn't DI right, it's almost a free bat. Also been using PK Fire into PK Thunder2, PK Fire into Dash attacl(Works best so far), and PK Fire into yoyo. Good stuff.

PSI Magnet: Your only real defense against Lucas's horror. Its lack of lag is beautiful.

PK Flash: Better for people coming from above, due to Brawl's floatiness. Can be used to Juggle, good against Snake. Horrible for edgeguarding, don't even try.

PK Thunder: Okay, I have so much to say about this move, omg. First off, good for juggling, just great. Second, the tailwhip is ****ING HUGE. Yes, oh yes, orgasm.

Okay, PK Thunder 2 stuff now. First off, the range is a little short, so be careful. Now that that's been said, you almost NEVER have to be careful with this move. The afterlag is ****ing ridiculous short, if you hit an enemy it freaking DESTROYS your range(this is a good thing for when you're aiming off of the edge.) Plus, the very nice two sided sweetspot allows you to grab the ledge if you go off the stage with PK Thunder a little. Damage is huge, knockback is huge(especially for Brawl, this is one of the best killing moves in the game). Hitting shields is bad, so mindgames are neccessary. But, hands down, Simna is going to be the best Brawl player in the entire world because of this move. I'm not even joking. It's THAT good.


YYG doesn't work. Give it up, we'll find something new.


Tilts are all basically the same.

As is the AAA combo.

Uair is a TINY bit better for juggling, not much.

Rising is super fun and awesome and useful as hell. Working hard on coming up with new combo stuff for it. It's REALLY hard to get used to, huge learning curve, but I can see how it's useful.



Ness is Middle or High Tier hands down. He has problems with Lucas, but so do lots of people. He has the advantage of being able to PSI Magnet Lucas's PK Thunder. Also, NEVER USE PK THUNDER ON LUCAS, I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL COME BACK THERE AND WHIP YOU SILLY WITH MY BELT!!


Ness's black shirt is cool.


THANK YOU! GNIGHT!

[TenshiOni]

Good to hear. Some nice stuff.

Thanks a lot.

[Levitas]

Nice, you finally got a chance to play it. Where's his approach game? Sh fairs, dash attacks, and grabs? Also, I've seen Ness's grab range, but have you tried the pivot grab for range?

[Ademisk]

Approach is way different in brawl. It depends on who you're fighting. Character matchups mean a LOT in Brawl from what I can tell. Main approach is SHed fairs, rising fairs, or dash attack. Pivot grab is hard to work, dash dancing and fox trotting is tough to pull off.

[Smashbros_7]

Pimpin aint easy! Man this guide is good! Kudos!

[popo12]

Sorry for sounding like a n00b, but what exactly is foxtrotting? And what's PK Thunder 2? Is it where he hits himself with it?

I'm disapointed that PK Flash can't be used to edgeguard, but I'm glad that it's better now. I'm glad his bair's still good. Sweetspotting it in Melee makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[EarthBound08]

Ah! You have NO idea how long I've been waiting for something like this! I've just been dying to see how Ness' PK Fire and Flash are. Nice to see they're great, as usual!

*NESS DAIR*

Also, LOL at the title. "Looks like I actually got to play Brawl." It makes you sound like it was out of the blue. I don't know why, but I LOL'd REALLY hard at the title!

EB08

[Kiki52]

The only thing I can think of Ness' PK Flash is for long range heavy artillery. It only works on 2 v 2 matches if the other party is stupid and kept on one side, and I am Ness I stand at a distance while one really good pure CQB person like Marth or Sheik or someone distracts the other two players and I PK Flash them while they are both up close to my partner fighting. That seems like the best situation to use PK Flash, but most likely a smart team would divide the match into two 1 on 1s rather than just fight the frontline fighter and have Ness bombard them with PK Flash.

[Levitas]

You know, I thought of that strategy 7 years ago for melee. It didn't work, lol.

[Ademisk]

A little more info here.

PK Flash works for edgeguarding...on like...2 people. Bowser and....I dunno.....Dedede? Whatever. Best thing about PK Flash is, uncharged PK Flash can combo!!! It comes out that quickly.

PK Thunder is so hard to control, it's going to take FOREVER to learn it well. On the plus side, it's very easy to do straight up PKT2 and you sweetspot super easily because of the new ledgegrab physics.


I have video of a bunch of matches with my friend, they should be up before too long

[NessOnett]

The only thing I can think of Ness' PK Flash is for long range heavy artillery. It only works on 2 v 2 matches if the other party is stupid and kept on one side, and I am Ness I stand at a distance while one really good pure CQB person like Marth or Sheik or someone distracts the other two players and I PK Flash them while they are both up close to my partner fighting. That seems like the best situation to use PK Flash, but most likely a smart team would divide the match into two 1 on 1s rather than just fight the frontline fighter and have Ness bombard them with PK Flash.

I got this to work in melee with my partner being Marth. (much to the dismay of the evil foxes caught up in it). You just need good timing and a partner who can distract well. Hopefully it will be worth it this time around with the power toned down but in any case with the speed boost it should be easier to pull off.

[Ademisk]

In Brawl, a good kill move is worth its weight in gold.


In addition, PK Flash does NOT have a speed boost.

Here are its new properties.


It comes out super quick, I mean like crazy quick, quick enough to combo. Then it starts rising, at this point it gets really slow. REALLY, REALLY, SLOW. Constrol over PK Flash is horrible now, you can give it a direction, but BE CAREFUL. After it starts moving, you'll lose almost all control over it. It's not like Melee PK Flash where you can DI it one way and then start moving it the other direction to lessen the directional pull. The amount of influence you have over PK Flash once it starts moving is very little. In addition, at this point it's very slow and almost pointless to use. It still works for opponents falling from the sky, though it's fairly simple to just air dodge it, and Bowser's recovery.

[Drik Khaail]

wow; Ness sounds even awesomer than before, if that was possible :D

[toon link 94]

actually ness barely changed his moves are basicly the same as melee!

[BentoBox]

Every character got an overhaul in brawl.

Because of this, Lucas is superior.

[Levitas]

I tried lucas, and I tried Ness. Ness is the better player. Lucas is really... I don't know. I just didn't like him nearly as much. And Ness's PK Thunder is far and away the better thunder.

[Serpit]

I tried lucas, and I tried Ness. Ness is the better player. Lucas is really... I don't know. I just didn't like him nearly as much. And Ness's PK Thunder is far and away the better thunder.

I disagree and I think Lucas is overall better, but well, to each his own ^^

[NESSBOUNDER]

Lucas's PK Thunder is FAR superior.

[Levitas]

Disagree. While PK thunder on lucas has the advantage of not disappearing while it hits someone, Ness's is faster, and his PKT2 kills very easily.

[Serpit]

Disagree. While PK thunder on lucas has the advantage of not disappearing while it hits someone, Ness's is faster, and his PKT2 kills very easily.

Well, Lucas does a whole lot more damage when actually hitting the opponent with PKT1, covers more distance with PKT2 and can control his PKT better to actually hit the opponents, even twice or trice with the same attack.

[Kiki52]

Sometimes it can advantageous if the PK Thunder disappears when it hits someone so you can move again. Ness' PK Thunder can be advantageous over Lucas' in those certain situations where you want it to end.

The one thing I like Lucas over Ness though is Lucas' voice. His voice seems more manly, Ness sounds too high pitched. But other than that, I like Ness :)

[BentoBox]

Sometimes it can advantageous if the PK Thunder disappears when it hits someone so you can move again. Ness' PK Thunder can be advantageous over Lucas' in those certain situations where you want it to end.


Like... when you're being edgeguarded right? Oh wait.

Lucas' PKt's smaller turning radius also does make it harder for opponents to intercept.

This way guys: http://smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=145

[Levitas]

Like... when you're being edgeguarded right? Oh wait.

Lucas' PKt's smaller turning radius also does make it harder for opponents to intercept.

This way guys: http://smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=145

Lol, seems the Ness/Lucas wars have begun! Bring it on! lol

In all seriousness, you like the voice of one little boy over another because it's more manly? Let me point you to the gannon boards...

And Ness kills people easily at fairly low percents with PKT2, and it's much faster to pull off than it was in melee. The interception time (if for some reason an opponent is right there) is quite small, and Lucas can be chump blocked just as easily. All the opponent needs to do to block Lucas's PKT is attack it. Once people catch on to that, Ness and Lucas will be in the same boat.

[NESSBOUNDER]

Ness's PK thunder suffers from the same low priority as Lucas's, but Lucas's rewards for hitting are much greater. You can get around 20% or so from a single PK thunder.

Lucas has the same protection that Ness does, as in his body shocks people while PK thunder is out.

Ness's PK thunder knocks UP rather than sideways like Lucas's does, etc.

And arguably, Lucas KO's at lower % than Ness. Lucas's main KO move is faster (fsmash) than Ness's (fsmash/pkthunder2) and his up smash gets anyone form 80% up.

What's the KO power for Ness's PKthunder2, by the way?

[BentoBox]

I haven't played the game yet but just how reliable is PKT2 as a killing move... o.o

[EToaster]

What's the KO power for Ness's PKthunder2, by the way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOdhGaThqYs&feature=user

You can see Ness KO Mario at 68% with PKT2 at 3:30 in this video. It was pretty close to the edge, but still.

[Lucas_User]

Thanks for the information.

[NESSBOUNDER]

Well from the look of that, I'd say Ness definately has the superior KO move. XD

I just hope we'll be able to apply it effectively. Even in Brawl it may be hard to hit with PK thunder2.

[EToaster]

Actually, now that I think about it, that was at point blank range though. The power probably deteriorates the further you fly before hitting the enemy.

[Ademisk]

Wow, no offense Jman, but you're retarded. Lucas's PK Thunder is by FAR the better. Ness can kill with PKT2. Lucas can kill with PK Thunder.


Also, PKT2 is the ****ing easiest thing in the world to hit with. Almost no lag, hard to dodge mid-air, you can fly off the side of the stage and SURVIVE!!! ^_^. I use it regularly to edgeguard. There's like...nothing they can do about it, almost no danger to yourself, and an extremely high KO rate even at something like 20% due to stage spiking.

[Levitas]

lol, you guys win. I'll just go cry in this corner over here...

I'm gonna have to go play some more.

[BentoBox]

Lol, seems the Ness/Lucas wars have begun! Bring it on! lol

In all seriousness, you like the voice of one little boy over another because it's more manly? Let me point you to the gannon boards...

And Ness kills people easily at fairly low percents with PKT2, and it's much faster to pull off than it was in melee. The interception time (if for some reason an opponent is right there) is quite small, and Lucas can be chump blocked just as easily. All the opponent needs to do to block Lucas's PKT is attack it. Once people catch on to that, Ness and Lucas will be in the same boat.

Doesn't lucas' pkt go through people though? How would someone go about to intercept something they cannot block?

Lucas4prez?

[Levitas]

OK, first off. After playing some more, Lucas's PKT is a good kill move, however wierd that may be. Lucas's PKT doesn't get eaten by people, it gets eaten by people that are attacking the bolt. most attacks just overpower and destroy the bolt. Don't think that lucas is god tier. He'll see some rough matchups as people figure out how to fight him.

That being said, I'm maining Ness/Lucas and seconding Zelda/Samus at this point. They're all so much fun to play.

[EToaster]

Woah, I was just watching some videos from the video thread, and found a much more impressive example of Ness' PKT2 right at the tail end of this vs. Marth video.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=1A9Rn4kOr6s

Marth goes from 69% to 95% while off the edge of Pokemon Stadium and is KOed off the OPPOSITE side of the stage.

[Dynamism]

Ok that's awesome lol
NEEEEEEEEEES I mean, YEEEEEEEEEEES

[Ademisk]

Yes. Like I said, Ness's PKT2 is INTENSE! Fast to pull off, very little lag, very little danger, much better mindgames due to people being floatier. SIMNA. WILL. BE. THE. BEST. PLAYER. IN. THE. WORLD. How many times do I have to say things?

[Levitas]

thrice. No more, no less. Deal with it.

[Kiki52]

Is Lucas PKT2 better than Ness' PKT2? It just looked like Ness pwned Marth in that instance in the movie.

[Ademisk]

No, Lucas's isn't better. It does more damage, but less knockback. Plus he can't surprise so easily with it, Ness's is fast enough to mess with people's head and blast em.

[Simna ibn Sind]

oh oh! also ness has a new move! press and hold the A button

lol but yeah ness' pk thunder is fast enough that when u use it, even if you are recovering, you could go ape**** with the bolt before hitting yourself