Link the King of shield pressuring: Interesting new find.

[Mr.C]

Since L canceling is no longer in the game we would all assume Dair will be an unsafe aerial to use in most situations. Well I've noticed something interesting that will play a very important part of Link's meta game and over all shield pressuring techniques which he is known best for. For the people who aren't familiar with Melee terms :] which I'm sure is very few people, lol.

FH = Full hop
SH = Short hop
AD = Air dodge
Dair = Down aerial
Bair = Back aerial
Nair = Neutral aerial
Fair = Forward aerial
Uair = Up aerial

Dair'ing someones shield in Brawl causes you to Dair bounce similar to the way it did in Melee when you actually hit your opponent with the Dair. If you hit someones shield with a Dair in brawl you bounce keeping your Dair animation, if you FF after the shield bounce your Dair will have no lag upon landing. If you stay in the air you can pull of another aerial attack. This means Nair, Bair approaches will be much safer this time around. For example:

FH Nair > double jump > FF Dair shield > bounce > Nair/Bair/Dair/Fair/Uair, if possible.

In short, if you normally Dair without hitting someones shield and you are not the correct height your Dair will have landing lag leaving you open for attack. If you bounce of someones shield that lag is removed.

This was a huge mind game/approach in Melee and I'm sure it will be the same in Brawl. FH'ing a Nair and tipping your opponents shield usually causes them to try and shield grab from habit, of course all the high-level competitive Link players know you can then waste your double jump and come down with a Dair either hitting them, or Bair behind their shield etc. This means you can strafe/jump behind your opponents shield allowing you to reset with bomb, gale pressuring.

At 2:45-2:50 you will witness the Dair shield bounce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg07kPLs4Eg

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I'm not 100% sure but I believe:

FH Nair/Bair (maybe SH's) > AD: will bring you to the ground much faster allowing you to Utilt, a,a,a, grab etc..rather then waiting to hit the ground from a normal FF. For example:

FH Nair/Bair > double jump > Dair shield bounce > AD while having downward momentum getting you to the ground much quicker, then starting your tilts, or running away and start spamming projectiles.

AD > Dair shield > bounce > Nair/Bair/Dair/Fair/Uair, depending on the situation etc.

I get to play Brawl this weekend so I'll play around a little with air dodging from Nair/Bair's see if this is possible....which it should be. But anyways y'all should check out this video, a nice match between Link/TL. You'll get to see some of the Dair shield bounce combo's in action. You will also see some uses of the downwards momentum dodge. The Link's are looking a lot better this time around, haha. :]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uX_vq-xUMLM

[ODIN787]

nice theory ,since i like to use links dair as my finisher is nice to know that the possibility of being punished for an missed attempt is reduced cause i was a little worried about that since there is no more l-cancel ,but anyways im sure that it will all turn out ok so keep on investigating ,i salute you

[Wyvern]

I've noticed the Sword Plant bounces a few times, and I knew it looked really useful. But it doesn't always seem to happen...I'm pretty sure I've noticed it cutting straight through to the ground occasionally. Do you have any idea what the difference is? Do you have to already be touching the shield before you start the move, or does it have to be the center of the shield or something? I'd love to know the exact mechanics behind it, since the Sword Plant is looking like Link's most important KO move in Brawl and a reliable method for avoiding the horrendous lag would make a huge difference.

[Mr.C]

I've noticed the Sword Plant bounces a few times, and I knew it looked really useful. But it doesn't always seem to happen...I'm pretty sure I've noticed it cutting straight through to the ground occasionally. Do you have any idea what the difference is? Do you have to already be touching the shield before you start the move, or does it have to be the center of the shield or something? I'd love to know the exact mechanics behind it, since the Sword Plant is looking like Link's most important KO move in Brawl and a reliable method for avoiding the horrendous lag would make a huge difference.

I'm not 100% positive but from what I've noticed if you sword plant someones shield it bounces. If your sword plant actually connects on your opponent it goes straight through, instantly hitting the ground. So far all of the vids I've seen if the sword plant hits a shield it causes you to bounce thus removing the lag. I'll look more into this when I play the game this weekend. :]

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

From what I've seen, I think its the spot on the shield it hits. If your character plants too far to the sides, he'll slip down and face the lag. If he's close to the middle, he'll pop up. This would merely mean you need to be accurate with your attack, as the lag could be quite fatal.

I think that the best follow up pressure would be a Back Air, don't you think? The separate hits would cause more shield-hit-stun, potentially even getting the second hit to connect because of the reduced shield?

[Mr.C]

From what I've seen, I think its the spot on the shield it hits. If your character plants too far to the sides, he'll slip down and face the lag. If he's close to the middle, he'll pop up. This would merely mean you need to be accurate with your attack, as the lag could be quite fatal.

I think that the best follow up pressure would be a Back Air, don't you think? The separate hits would cause more shield-hit-stun, potentially even getting the second hit to connect because of the reduced shield?

Ya that makes sense. True dat lol. :]

[Mr.C]

Ok so on Saturday I finally had the chance to play Brawl for quite a while. Played both Link and TL to see how they were and to test out my Dair theory.

Link impressions:

- Can't spam projectiles like you could in Melee thats for sure. They come out a lot slower and the levels are quite a bit smaller. BUT projectiles seem a lot better overall due to people having little ways of getting to you. So spacing and throwing projectiles is a hard thing to counter.

- UpB out of shield does not kill but it is still very useful.

- Nair, Fair, Bair all have no lag when SH'ing, so thats nice. Although all are weaker then the Melee counter parts. You can still SH a Bair and jump out of it, mind gamsies! =]

- He has HORRIBLE recovery...his hook shot does nothing for recovery. And his up b is easily edge guarded. This potentially makes him a bad character.

- While testing out Dair...in order for it to bounce you have to hit on top of the shield and the Dair cannot be FF'd while hitting the shield for it to bounce. You cannot jump out of the Dair but it does a Dair bounce which can hit. If you fade away your Dair stab will have no lag. Which is nice.

Overall he is a mediocre character. Not too good but definitely not bad. His game will be based around spacing and throwing projectiles to get your opponent to shield. His aerials are nice % builders but the only ones that can kill are Dair, Uair. Hook shot is pointless. And his a,a,a is amazing for negating shield grabs, Fsmash is a nice finisher...and his tilts are all good.

Toon Link impressions:

- 100% better than Link. lol

- Most of his aerials are 2x in SH, have no landing lag and can be used for some nice juggles.

- Dair is amazing and can be used for some nice mind games since it super fast falls automatically. Also bounces.

- Projectiles are all right. His bombs are used for pressure and his arrows are pretty nice. His boomerang is amazing.

TL is a combo machine although he has very little kill moves at lower %'s he can rack up damage insanely fast. His recovery is a little better than Links. I'd say TL is the Fox of Brawl...he is fast in the air and on the ground, has a nice pressure game and racks up %'s fast. He is pretty hard to hit BUT dies at pretty low %'s...... hes definitely one of the better characters in Brawl.

[Shellshock821]

Sounds good Mr. C, thanks for the info. Overall do you feel that he will be more or less effective as his Melee counterpart? I really like Link as a character but the more and more I hear about him, the more it seems he's not going to be too good. Lacks good kills moves, lacks good combos, lacks good recovery,and projectiles aren't too strong. Goodness what does he have to give him some sort of advantage or edge? It seems like there's almost no true point to play him (other than character like) as Toon Link does everything better as a whole. Please by all means tell me I'm wrong. :(

[Mr.C]

Sounds good Mr. C, thanks for the info. Overall do you feel that he will be more or less effective as his Melee counterpart? I really like Link as a character but the more and more I hear about him, the more it seems he's not going to be too good. Lacks good kills moves, lacks good combos, lacks good recovery,and projectiles aren't too strong. Goodness what does he have to give him some sort of advantage or edge? It seems like there's almost no true point to play him (other than character like) as Toon Link does everything better as a whole. Please by all means tell me I'm wrong. :(

Overall I feel like he will do better. Not because he as a character is noticeably better but due to the transition to Brawl from Melee. Link cannot be punished as easily. So characters with good aerials that have no lag are in a huge advantage to characters that don't have good approaching aerials. Links aerials are extremely safe, they don't do much damage but they do not get punished like most aerials in the game. His Utilt is still AMAZING and Projectiles in this game are very good, even though Link cannot spam as quick as he could in Melee....it is pretty hard to approach Link this time around. He has upb out of shield, projectiles, safe aerials...add all of them together and he has pretty solid defense. He is a solid character.

TL vs Link is kind of like Fox vs Falco in Melee. Both are good but one as to be better. Both have pros and cons, one being if you don't get gimped on the edge with Link he lives MUCH longer then TL. Link is more of a defensive character while TL has more of an offensive play style. The reason I said "TL is 100% better than Link" which isn't necessarily true although I think TL is a better character. Is because in Brawl shield pressuring while being safe is very important. TL can pressure shields like crazy and can hardly be punished very similar to how Fox was in Melee. It really depends on your play style....are you the aggressive type or the defensive type, pretty much.

[Shellshock821]

Overall I feel like he will do better. Not because he as a character is noticeably better but due to the transition to Brawl from Melee. Link cannot be punished as easily. So characters with good aerials that have no lag are in a huge advantage to characters that don't have good approaching aerials. Links aerials are extremely safe, they don't do much damage but they do not get punished like most aerials in the game. His Utilt is still AMAZING and Projectiles in this game are very good, even though Link cannot spam as quick as he could in Melee....it is pretty hard to approach Link this time around. He has upb out of shield, projectiles, safe aerials...add all of them together and he has pretty solid defense. He is a solid character.

TL vs Link is kind of like Fox vs Falco in Melee. Both are good but one as to be better. Both have pros and cons, one being if you don't get gimped on the edge with Link he lives MUCH longer then TL. Link is more of a defensive character while TL has more of an offensive play style. The reason I said "TL is 100% better than Link" which isn't necessarily true although I think TL is a better character. Is because in Brawl shield pressuring while being safe is very important. TL can pressure shields like crazy and can hardly be punished very similar to how Fox was in Melee. It really depends on your play style....are you the aggressive type or the defensive type, pretty much.

I see, well that clears that up. Thanks.

[Mr.C]

I see, well that clears that up. Thanks.

Np :]

Its going to take some getting use to but Link/Brawl were extremely fun!

[Da Black Rabbit]

This new is kind of saddening though. I played Link with a pressure game in Melee, as I assume most did, SH > DB > Runnning Toss > Grab/UB/FB Grab if they block/Side Stepped, spin attack if they advanced rolled, boomerang if they retreat, and jumping versions if they jumped. That was basicly my intro move for every one on one match.

Now I have to switch that cuz he won't pluck that bomb fast enough in that short hop? He he won't toss that boomerang = to my or my opponents reaction time? Least the spin slash still comes out instantly and better that it can be charged, but...

A short hop spamming advance seems kind of useless if he can't throw them fast enough int he jump frames.

[Aurashade]

Guys, it's a new find because he found it on the OFFICIAL WEBSITE! THAT'S PRETTY NEW AND UNSOUND IF YOU ASK ME!

[Mr.C]

This new is kind of saddening though. I played Link with a pressure game in Melee, as I assume most did, SH > DB > Runnning Toss > Grab/UB/FB Grab if they block/Side Stepped, spin attack if they advanced rolled, boomerang if they retreat, and jumping versions if they jumped. That was basicly my intro move for every one on one match.

Now I have to switch that cuz he won't pluck that bomb fast enough in that short hop? He he won't toss that boomerang = to my or my opponents reaction time? Least the spin slash still comes out instantly and better that it can be charged, but...

A short hop spamming advance seems kind of useless if he can't throw them fast enough int he jump frames.

Bombs still start up combo's....you can still also pull them out from a SH...the main difference is really the boomerang. Cant spam it as fast and it does much less damage. Can't really be used for setting up combo's or at least I couldn't. Still good for keeping your distance, racking up %'s and keeping your opponent in shield, though.

[Da Black Rabbit]

Oh well... The boomerang had crap as* start up lag, anyway... :/

I guess I officially will NOT be using Forward B for anything. I found it to be not very useful and slow in Melee. Henced I only used it if they retreated to keep the pressure.

Not sure I can say the same for Brawl. Sure, not competing with the speed of a reverse wave dash, and I doubt it's slower then a roll, but still... Some characters, it seems, have a really really fast roll. Example: K Dede: He seems to more "slide" then anything and seems really quick. Tossing the boomerang out would just bounce off him if here were to still to be guarding and be a waste.

But that "pulling" effect of the boomerang is enticing... Does it make up for the nerfs? Do you know if it pulls items to you, too? I've been wondering about that as well.

[Mr.C]

Oh well... The boomerang had crap as* start up lag, anyway... :/

I guess I officially will NOT be using Forward B for anything. I found it to be not very useful and slow in Melee. Henced I only used it if they retreated to keep the pressure.

Not sure I can say the same for Brawl. Sure, not competing with the speed of a reverse wave dash, and I doubt it's slower then a roll, but still... Some characters, it seems, have a really really fast roll. Example: K Dede: He seems to more "slide" then anything and seems really quick. Tossing the boomerang out would just bounce off him if here were to still to be guarding and be a waste.

But that "pulling" effect of the boomerang is enticing... Does it make up for the nerfs? Do you know if it pulls items to you, too? I've been wondering about that as well.

No idea about the pulling effect. I know when I was playing against a Link player there I would purposely take the pull to get closer.