Uptilt spike?

[random smasher]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CBTuSit-_Aw
7 seconds in marth does what looks like an uptilt spike.
I seached and found nothing so if this is already known sorry.

[SiShenDao]

hmmm from the looks of it, it may meteor smash when his opponent is at his back.

[Superninjabreadman]

Might wanna submit this to the Marth Q&A Thread.


Im going to put this on the Marth Video Archive...

__

It -does- look like it meteors, It my do good for his Edgeuarding game, but its hard to meteor while on the ground. (effectively, with a good chance of meteoring)

[shadydentist]

with auto sweetspotting, i don't see this becoming very useful.

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I'm guessing the utilt hits you in the direction that the sword travels, so when it comes down behind him, it spikes.

If we can find a way to set up for this, it could be deadly. Even if it's very situational, it gives your opponents another thing to worry about.

[Charlesz]

I dont seeing it very useful but if you can set it up, maybe.

[OperationJonny]

The utilt?

I used to use it against a pal of mine in Melee, when he used Luigi's Up B to spin downwards into me.

If it's the same as in Melee, yeah there's a tipper on it and it sends them far when it hits.

[C0nn0r]

that's not what he's talking about idiot. He's pointing out the possibility that Marth's up tilt can spike now. He's not talking about how it has a sweetspot because that was already known.

[Mario_ 101]

Weird spike.

[random smasher]

with auto sweetspotting, i don't see this becoming very useful.

This could be true, but it's always good to have more options

[icraq]

Completely useless. Forget about it. This would only have uses on stages that have no actual edge to grab, because they're just going to hit the edge on their way down, this move does not have that much range. They'd have to be high enough and stupid enough for it to work, and a fsmash or a fair would be a better choice.

[Honto-E-Lawl]

bleh...the auto sweet spot thing makes everything useless XD

[Dark Sonic]

This would only have uses on stages that have no actual edge to grab, because they're just going to hit the edge on their way down.

That doesn't affect it at all.:laugh:

You do realize that if they pass the ledge they won't grab it because of being in stun right?

And I think this can be usefull, not for killing, but for setting up a tech chase. With the characters being so floaty, finding a move like this is actually a decent find. I'm assuming it's a spike due to the angle the opponent was sent at, and it supports the theory that the opponent is sent in the direction that the sword is traveling.

[icraq]

That doesn't affect it at all.:laugh:

You do realize that if they pass the ledge they won't grab it because of being in stun right?

And I think this can be usefull, not for killing, but for setting up a tech chase. With the characters being so floaty, finding a move like this is actually a decent find. I'm assuming it's a spike due to the angle the opponent was sent at, and it supports the theory that the opponent is sent in the direction that the sword is traveling.

No, going for this spike is completely worthless in any sense, even for a tech chase, it's too situational. It's like people who think Marth's up smash in melee was good. There's way more you can do, though utilt isn't a bad move, just waiting for the spike spot is stupid.
You don't even know the hitstun on that move, I'm sure. And I seriously doubt it lasts that long, since it's not a real spike, and there's almost no hitstun in this game, anyways. It'd be hard for the person to even get into a position where you could spike them with this, and they'd have to be completely retarded for this to work consistently.

[Dark Sonic]

No, going for this spike is completely worthless in any sense, even for a tech chase, it's too situational. It's like people who think Marth's up smash in melee was good. There's way more you can do, though utilt isn't a bad move, just waiting for the spike spot is stupid.
You don't even know the hitstun on that move, I'm sure. And I seriously doubt it lasts that long, since it's not a real spike, and there's almost no hitstun in this game, anyways. It'd be hard for the person to even get into a position where you could spike them with this, and they'd have to be completely retarded for this to work consistently.

And you can't simply reverse uptilt? Hitting with the back of the up tilt is really not that hard.

And I'm basing the power of the move off the fact that Omilar was sent down very quickly even though he was only at 14% when he got hit.

This is in no way in the same situation as the up smash. This is actually part of a very commonly used attack, and not some unorthodox, laggy, hard to sweetspot move. I'm saying that this is a decent find, not a revolutionary one.

And how do you know it's not a real spike? Has it been tested, because based off the angle it sent Omilar at (45 degrees instead of straight down) it could easily be seen as simply the trajectory of the up tilt (AKA, a spike).

In case you haven't noticed, the situation I posted was not for spiking the opponent off the stage. It's simply for making an opponent that's behind you come down, which isn't a bad thing since Marth doesn't like people behind him. This should work just as consistantly as a simple reverse up tilt, and is not as useless as you're trying to make it sound.

[The_Marth_Madness]

Useful against Sonic and Snake?

[icraq]

And you can't simply reverse uptilt? Hitting with the back of the up tilt is really not that hard.

And I'm basing the power of the move off the fact that Omilar was sent down very quickly even though he was only at 14% when he got hit.

This is in no way in the same situation as the up smash. This is actually part of a very commonly used attack, and not some unorthodox, laggy, hard to sweetspot move. I'm saying that this is a decent find, not a revolutionary one.

And how do you know it's not a real spike? Has it been tested, because based off the angle it sent Omilar at (45 degrees instead of straight down) it could easily be seen as simply the trajectory of the up tilt (AKA, a spike).

In case you haven't noticed, the situation I posted was not for spiking the opponent off the stage. It's simply for making an opponent that's behind you come down, which isn't a bad thing since Marth doesn't like people behind him. This should work just as consistantly as a simple reverse up tilt, and is not as useless as you're trying to make it sound.

For it to work they have to be close enough to the ground (so characters bigger than olimar ((none, maybe pika)) only), and they'd more than likely be able to hit you before the time you'd wait to use the utilt as a spike (since you'd have to wait even longer to use it).
In brawl there's hardly no time to do things like this, and it'd be better just to do a simple utilt, than to wait to spike with it. Marth can do more things in the air than on the ground, so following your opponent up is better than following them across.

Someone mentioned sonic/snake, but they can both attack you if you're just going to stand by the ledge. You won't out space them with the utilt because they have to be relatively close to Marth's person to get spiked by it. Dair would work, too, but chances are it'd just get meteor canceled, anyways.

Oh, since you asked if I knew it was a spike or not, I'll actually try it out and post in about 15 minutes.

[Dark Sonic]

For it to work they have to be close enough to the ground (so characters bigger than olimar ((none, maybe pika)) only), and they'd more than likely be able to hit you before the time you'd wait to use the utilt as a spike (since you'd have to wait even longer to use it).

First of all, you can just do a reverse up tilt anytime that they would be in the air in front of you, so it's not nearly as hard to hit with as you make it seem. Second, what does the character's size have to do with anything. I pull reverse uptilts all the time in melee (on Marth and Shiek no less), as a nice little way to pop the opponent up and because it's harder to DI than a normal up tilt. I'm not saying it's the end all newly discovered strategy, I'm saying that although it's a little situational, it's still not useless (it's like Marth's dash attack in melee in terms of usefulness)

In brawl there's hardly no time to do things like this, and it'd be better just to do a simple utilt, than to wait to spike with it. Marth can do more things in the air than on the ground, so following your opponent up is better than following them across. How about, instead of uptilting the opponent that's in front of you, you turn around and uptilt instead? How about treating this like a situational move instead of trying to spam it?

Oh, since you asked if I knew it was a spike or not, I'll actually try it out and post in about 15 minutes.

Please do, because I want to know if they'd just be able to use their second jump right out of it, or if it would actually force them onto the ground like I want it to.

[icraq]

First of all, you can just do a reverse up tilt anytime that they would be in the air in front of you, so it's not nearly as hard to hit with as you make it seem. Second, what does the character's size have to do with anything. I pull reverse uptilts all the time in melee (on Marth and Shiek no less), as a nice little way to pop the opponent up and because it's harder to DI than a normal up tilt. I'm not saying it's the end all newly discovered strategy, I'm saying that although it's a little situational, it's still not useless (it's like Marth's dash attack in melee in terms of usefulness)
How about, instead of uptilting the opponent that's in front of you, you turn around and uptilt instead? How about treating this like a situational move instead of trying to spam it?



Please do, because I want to know if they'd just be able to use their second jump right out of it, or if it would actually force them onto the ground like I want it to.

Sorry, it took me way too long to get back to you on this.
I tested it on some different characters, but not too extensively.
Basically, for it to be a spike, they have to be right at the very bottom of the last part of the attack. Most of the time the higher part of the sword hits the person's face before the lower part of it does (the part that spikes)

Five situations would allow for the spike to occur.

1 - They're short enough to get hit by the underside of his utilt
2 - They're recovering, and coming from below the ledge, but miss their sweet spot (tested a few times on Lucas, could never get it)
3 - They're tumbling and you catch them right before they hit the ground with it. (never tested, but definitely possible.)
4 - They're ducking/crawling
5 - One of their moves comes out and it misses you, but lets say it was their leg, and you could hit the leg with the underside of the utilt, and it'd spike.

This would be good on olimar, lucas, ness, and that's probably about it.

Up Smash works as a spike, which is in the hitbox that shoots out of Marth's feet, so if someone is recovering from below on a slanted stage (so the hitbox extends past the ledge) and they miss their sweet spot, it will spike. Basically it's just like a reverse up smash, but they go down, instead. (I'm pretty sure it has the same force of a tippered up smash)

I'd test to see if it could be jumped out of, but usually people don't want to do that sort of stuff, they just want to play Brawl. And it's hard to do in training mode.

One last edit: Probably not very useful on Snake, but maybe Sonic. It'd be easier to just grab Snake's cypher and send him falling in stead. I could see it working on Sonic, but it'd require perfect positioning (not on Marth's part, but Sonic's) to catch him after his Up B with it.

[spiritdragon]

bleh...the auto sweet spot thing makes everything useless XD

Quoted for emphasis

[icraq]

Quoted for emphasis

It's not as auto as you think. Certain characters don't get to enjoy auto sweet spotting, while others do, and some have to still be able to accurately hit the ledge, or else they might not sweet spot.