What, give Marth a weakness? What would he need that for?

[Fawriel]

Hello and welcome to my series of paranoid threads about stuff that sucks because it doesn't suck enough.
After the one about Captain Falcon, this is my second. Are more to follow? Who knows!


So, it has come to my attention that Marth is the new Marth. I mean, uh. Sheik. Marth is the new Sheik. Must be the fact that Sheik has boobies now. Anyway.

Question is:
What are Marth's weaknesses and how can one counter them if one doesn't happen to be Link with an arsenal of bombs and stuff all over the place?

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I lol'd at your sig. On topic, Marth's tipper is slightly weaker, his sword is slightly shorter, and due to the new mechanics he can't combo as well.

[Hydde]

what the guy above me said.

Also he doesnt have his supreme grab from melee and is difficult to combo from his throws, even against floaties n low %,

Also his natural weakness.... the proyectiles. Characters like pit will put marth in a very offensive dilemma with those fast proyectiles.

[Warlock*G]

Aaaand if I recall, wavedashing helped him space so he could hit more easily with the tipper.

[Wight]

Why would you want to counter Marth's weaknesses and not his strengths?

Well since knockback deteriorates with use, marth's fair will be overused. Thats a weakness. No need to counter since its a weekness :P

With out Wavedashing he doesnt have the same spacing abilities so you need to worry less about his tipper.

I THINK Marth can't cancel most projectiles by hitting them like he could in melee (samus' missiles, fireballs etc)

If you want to counter the other players marth you can do a number of things.
1) be better than the other player
2) use marth
3) unplug your friend's controller.

[Warlock*G]

4) Use Snake and learn to use his explosives. **** that C4 looks good. And he's got what, 3, 4 projectiles?

[Count Alphez]

less range, poor recovery, still absolutely no long range.

a character with a strong long range arsenal can take marth down as long as they can survive realtive clsoe combat if the need arises (which it will!)

snake, samus. good choices

[Emblem Lord]

**** near eveyone that is aplying this game can see how good Marth is off the bat.


He is still a beast.

[Hydde]

but proyectiles are worse for marth now....for example...that stoobid zelda bombing... hesus is freking hardcore when she gets to put you in the rgith angle...you dont know what tod o with so many angles the explosions come from!!.

[Emblem Lord]

lol. You don't even have to time it to grab projectiles anymore. If someone throws something at you just dash attack. You will catch it automatically.

So unless your dealing with something you can't catch, then don't even worry about it.

With Zelda, just airdodge. The new airdodge is broken so abuse it.

You can get past most projectile spam with this.

[LegendofLink]

Marth now has problems with anyone who can match/beat his range(Link, Samus/ZSS, Snake, not so much Ike because Marth is way faster). He still has a huge advantage against characters withwout any effective projectile(Sonic, Diddy, Bowser, mabey Mario/Luigi, I don't know how much stun their fireballs have this time around).

[Emblem Lord]

Pretty much any knowledgeable gamer that I have talked to about Brawl i.e King, M2K, has said that so far, it looks like Marth only has one or two matches not in his favor.

And Snake, Samus and Link ain't one of them. So far, only Dedede stands out to me as giving Marth trouble.

[Kirin]

All of the above sound right, but he is still one of the best characters in Brawl.

[Marthikeroy]

Projectiles and strong attacks seem to be his problem because of his weight, imo.

[BentoBox]

He's gay. And wears a tiara.

[Ran Iji]

Well, the main weakness of Marth is to be effective you need to be aggressive. Once you remove Wave Dashing from the equation, you're left with a linear charge as being his main method of movement. Though he has considerable closing speed, he's in a bind if he has to use it. Ideally, he uses his speed to combo and keep the advantage of a foe he's hitting, and at his worst, he's using his speed to try to chase down a Projectile use.

It then becomes a question of how fast you can avoid, block, [air] dodge, or counter the attacks, without missing a beat. Marth is very unforgiving in that regard, and if you make the wrong choice or suboptimal one, you'll end up paying.

[e105beta]

Everyone needs a weakness. Now Marth requires moar strategies....that's all.

[rageagainst]

oh yeah i think marth is a light char now , and has a bad recovery now too (side b is near useless in that regard), so getting hit by a few strong attacks might do him in.

Oh yeah its hard to get tippers now since his range is shorter and thers no more wavedash.

[hario.hige]

Marth has greater range than most of the roster, regardless of the nerf from Melee.
Marth is faster than most of the roster.
Marth has low hitlag on most of his moves (dtilt, fair, etc.).
Marth has a recovery that works very well (not a tether, difficult to counter during the upB, etc.), due to the new ledge physics in Brawl (a recovery trick lost in transition is a nerf but ultimately isn't much of a weakness).
Marth isn't KO'd easily (at least, he's not as light as a Jigglypuff).
Marth can kill at roughly half the % of most of the roster through tippers.
He can approach with his fair comparatively safely and has a dtilt that gives him a safe ground attack with IASA frames.
Projectiles are beaten by the new airdodge and/or his quick approach speed.

Marth's weaknesses are pretty trivial in comparison to the rest of his capabilities. He's not gimped by anything at all like other characters. He has a bunch of KO moves, a non-tether recovery, edgeguarding capabilities, and so on.

[KYLEMARTHFALCODANIELSON]

oh yeah i think marth is a light char now , and has a bad recovery now too (side b is near useless in that regard), so getting hit by a few strong attacks might do him in.

Oh yeah its hard to get tippers now since his range is shorter and thers no more wavedash.

his recovery is still good you just have to realiize that you can't use the melee recovery everyone came to love. use neutral B instead of side B and His up B is even better than melee so i have to disagree with you on that. (the bad recovery part)

[Emblem Lord]

Marth has greater range than most of the roster, regardless of the nerf from Melee.
Marth is faster than most of the roster.
Marth has low hitlag on most of his moves (dtilt, fair, etc.).
Marth has a recovery that works very well (not a tether, difficult to counter during the upB, etc.), due to the new ledge physics in Brawl (a recovery trick lost in transition is a nerf but ultimately isn't much of a weakness).
Marth isn't KO'd easily (at least, he's not as light as a Jigglypuff).
Marth can kill at roughly half the % of most of the roster through tippers.
He can approach with his fair comparatively safely and has a dtilt that gives him a safe ground attack with IASA frames.
Projectiles are beaten by the new airdodge and/or his quick approach speed.

Marth's weaknesses are pretty trivial in comparison to the rest of his capabilities. He's not gimped by anything at all like other characters. He has a bunch of KO moves, a non-tether recovery, edgeguarding capabilities, and so on.

People need to read this repeatedly until it is drilled into your minds.

Marth is still a monster.

He is still fast. He still strong. He still has an awesome approach game. He still has range. He still has combos. He still rocks at edgeguarding.

I'll reiterate.

Marth is still a monster.

[BentoBox]

hario killed it

[ElectroBlade]

Down with Marth!!!

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I lol'd at your sig. On topic, Marth's tipper is slightly weaker, his sword is slightly shorter, and due to the new mechanics he can't combo as well.

I dunno.

He can kill on Battlefield with a tipped F-smash at about 80%, which is ridiculously low for this games standards. I know that he did get a range nerf and a speed buff, though.

[Marth117]

What if he does wear one.

But yes most long range characters might give out some trouple. Like Fox or Samus, but you could always dodge them. Besides that he is the same mostly

[kenkowtow]

Not really a comment or a challenge, I suppose a question....


How does a Marth overcome a laser spamming Falco?

To put it in perspective, take FD, Shine if linear approach (or Fsmash) and Roll/spot dodge is aerial.

[2kuul]

how would you rate marth at this moment 0/10... best?
im just curious... :)

[FuLLBLeeD]

So how would a Yoshi/Samus user beat a Marth?

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

He's gay. And wears a tiara.

And your DP is a flower.

[Brightside6382]

Pretty much any knowledgeable gamer that I have talked to about Brawl i.e King, M2K, has said that so far, it looks like Marth only has one or two matches not in his favor.

And Snake, Samus and Link ain't one of them. So far, only Dedede stands out to me as giving Marth trouble.

I honestly can't see how Dedede could give Marth a hard time...

[Mercury]

I honestly can't see how Dedede could give Marth a hard time...

longer range, heavy character, better damage power, better killing power, way better recovery, good projectile with decent kb at mid % range (killing power at late %s).

Dedede tippers > Marth tippers. i think.


but despite all that, like i said in another thread, it doesn't make Dedede rape Marth. Just... even it out. Marth is just well balanced, with significant advantages in all of the places an aggressive player wants.

[kidbu916]

Marth is still good but the fact remains is that there are more people with spammable projectiles not to mention buffed ones from last game. So how are we supposed to deal with that ?

[Linguini]

same way you did in melee, I really dont think you guys knew how to get around camping in melee, I mained ganon and did it. Marth can def. do it better.stop complaining about marth.

[kidbu916]

I did but with so many buffs and new people with better projectiles in his games its going to slightly more difficult .

[Fawriel]

I did but with so many buffs and new people with better projectiles in his games its going to slightly more difficult .

Whooooaaaaaa, dude.








Sorry, carry on. :p

[Skazryk]

he can be combo'd pretty easily, and in most of them his db is practically useless.