Marth's Final Smash findings

[WeltallZero]

I'm a big fan of balance, so when I saw that Marth's FS seemed horrendously overpowered, I just had to check if there was something else to it. I just popped into Training (with a custom stage designed to grab those pesky Smash Balls easier), and got cracking. These are my findings. First, what we aleready know:

1) Marth's Final Smash in the air will kill him if he hits noone. This was pretty much known, but I can verify it: he will keep going and going indefinitely, even on the other side of a large stage, and side-KO himself. So, it becomes increasingly risky to use this in the air the further the opponent is from you.

2) On the ground, he'll keep going right until the end of the platform he's in (or until he hits an enemy, obviously), making it totally safe. He even goes into his "losing balance" animation on the edge.

3) This is the most important finding. Playing 1-on-1, and assuming you're not in trouble already, this FS by itself can EASILY be evaded, and I mean 100%. It was said that you had to start the evade animation before he went into his FS pose, because time stopped. Well, it turns out time does NOT actually stop, it just slows down considerably.

Actually, this makes it far EASIER to dodge this attack! If you start a down-evade at any point of his startup animation, you're pretty much guaranteed to dodge it, even at point-blank distance. In fact, I found that it's easier to dodge it point-blank than if he's far away. When he is far from you, if you start the down-evade right away you'll be out of the dodge before he arrives, and you'll get hit. You can still, however, dodge it rather easily; just don't start the dodge until he's abut half a stage away.

I hope this eases the minds of some people who are as obsessed about game balance as I am. ^_^;

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Can't you just shield it as well? I heard that somewhere.

[bulgarian_kid]

I'm wondering is it easy (or possible) to combo into?

[WeltallZero]

No, you can't shield from it. It's unblockable.

As for comboing, that's up for the pros to test, as I'm a rather mediocre player. I couldn't cancel into it from, say, the neutral A attacks, so at least it's not like in Street Fighter games.

[Warlock*G]

Woohoo! (I'm a huge fan of balance too btw)

And that also means... since Wario's forward smash is super-armored at the beginning of the move... maybe, just maybe, I can start it *during* the slo-motion so I take the damage but no knockback, and then Marth will automatically take a shoulder charge to the face! XD

Good find Welltallzero. Good find. Unless someone wants to "debunk" it?

[No Limitz]

Some fun side note:
If playing multiplayer if you knock one person into another it'll create a domino effect KOing anyone who gets caught in it.

[CornCross]

I was so glad to read this. Marth was way over powered in Melee, and he's even more powerful in Brawl. I mean, come on!!

Speed, God-like range, tippers, a counter move, the grab range from hell, aerials, aerial down A, yeah I could keep going. Then I saw his final smash in a vid, and I was like, 'WHAT THE HELL?! DID HE EVEN NEED THAT?!?!

But yeah, I'm feelin' a little better now. Thanks.

[WeltallZero]

Woohoo! (I'm a huge fan of balance too btw)

And that also means... since Wario's forward smash is super-armored at the beginning of the move... maybe, just maybe, I can start it *during* the slo-motion so I take the damage but no knockback, and then Marth will automatically take a shoulder charge to the face! XD

I'll be glad to check on that (didn't know about Wario's fsmash super armor). One sec...
... no, it seems Marth's FS overpowers Wario's fsmash. Makes some sense, as it looks somewhat "throw-like": it ignores shielding, traps the opponent('s) for a couple secs, then the knockback seems semi-scripted (it's always the same angle regardless of how you hit/damage on the opponent). Not to mention the HP bar thingies. At the very least, it seems to sound like it hits several times in a fraction of second, so the first "hit" technically nulls the super armor.

Good find Welltallzero. Good find. Unless someone wants to "debunk" it?

By no means take my word as gospel, as I say I'm a very mediocre player. I'd wish for other people with the game to test this and see if there's anything I missed.

[Warlock*G]

Yeah, alright. Can anybody confirm this? Because you know, the more balanced this game is, the better it will be. Why do you think Starcraft is still praised? For its graphics? :p

[fatmatt]

Ike's Super Armor during Aether stops Marth's FS. Heres a video to prove it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBHLoR-SEfY

[Starry Might]

Ike's Super Armor during Aether stops Marth's FS. Heres a video to prove it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBHLoR-SEfY
Interesting!

Oh, and here's a post I made in another topic about Marth's Final Smash awhile back that relates to dodging it:
Hey guys, look at this video that I watched yesterday:

"SSBB - Online - Peach Samus Marth" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOURmsCKhVw)

At 3:59, Marth does his Final Smash for the second time in this match...AND IT FAILS!! :eek:

After watching that part over and over a few times just now to try and figure out what happened, I THINK that Samus somehow managed to roll out of the way when he did it.

What do you guys think?
So much for it being broken, huh? :p ;)

[supersonicdjs]

Can you use Mario's Cape to turn him around so he falls off the stage in a straight line?

[Omega_Star]

What I want to know is what happens if Marth's final smash connects in a somewhat-enclosed area such as the lower section of Melee's Hyrule Temple. Will the victim simply bounce around until he/she flies of the stage? Is it techable? I mean, the victim's life bar will presumably deplete complete to emphasize the OHKO aspect.

[Socrata]

This is interesting. I would like to know about what would happen in an semi-enclosed area like Omega Star said. It's also nice to be aware that his FS is not overpowered as it seems to have many ways to dodge it or prevent the knockback.

[Mezna]

Hehe. I want to make a stage where there is NO OPENING, and then see how many times they bounce.

[Warlock*G]

It's also nice to be aware that his FS is not overpowered as it seems to have many ways to dodge it or prevent the knockback.

Prevent the knockback? You mean super armor right?

[Charzonsos]

What about the invincibility frames from Red switching Pokemon?

[Starry Might]

Here's something I've thought of earlier that I think is a very good question...

If Marth does his Final Smash on top of the spinning blocks over the pit in the center of the Yoshi's Island stage from "Melee", does he hit them and fall through?

[Taiki]

I would like someone to do a quick test to find out if Marth's final smash would be cut short, if King Dedede threw a waddle doo/dee/gordo and the waddle doo/dee/gordo would be decimated as opposed to King Dedede himself.

[AustiniusRex]

I wonder, if there was a wall that marth was facing and did his FS in the air how that would turn out. I can't imagine that would kill him.

[Icy_Eagle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaXHjUWCtd0

look at 2:18 Marth uses his FS midair, hits noone, flys a bit off the stage and recovers