Float Cancelling is OUT. Everybody cry now!

[Yuna]

No matter how many have claimed that Float Cancel is still in, it is out. No matter what I try to do,
I cannot get her to Float Cancel.

A lot of the time, it will look like a Float Cancel but it won't have been one. Why? Because all of her slow aerials got faster (most noticable on Fair, which is quite fast now) and pretty much every single one of her aerials have next to no lag on landing now.

This is why it looks and feels like people are Float Cancelling occasionally, people. The moves either just end before they touch the ground (no lag for landing during the aerial) or the lag was so negligent it wasn't really noticable.

How can I prove this? If you try to Float Cancel a dair, you'll see a few frames during which she goes into her lag-animation for Dair (apparently, her Dair lags "a lot" now). No matter what you do, that tiny lag animation will always be there. It will go into this animation every single time as opposed to, say, the fair which is so fast sometimes you'll land after the move's over and it'll look like a float cancel.

There is however, a way to, um... float cancel the attack itself. Yes, you can no longer cancel the lag of aerials. But you can cancel the attack from coming out at all! The only way to initiate an aerial and landing during it without lagging is to land before the hitbox itself comes out.

This means that the attack itself will not come out, it will not provide shieldstun, the opponent is free to shieldgrab you. You can use this as a fakeout to trick them and dodge the shieldgrab, but it's not realiable, especially not for use often (they could anticipate the follow up).

Why did I forget to mention this earlier? Because it's not in any way new. It existed in Melee as well. In fact, everyone can do this. It's called the Auto-Cancel, simply lag before the hitbox for an aerial has come out and the move, along with the lag will disappear. Everyone could do it in Melee and everyone can do it now.

The problem is that in order to do this, you have to be right next to the ground, so it's not like people will fall for it often and people with fast reaction time will punish you.

[rockman2k1]

Dang, that sucks. However, if it's true and at least the rest of her moves got airel moves got faster, at least she can still almost play the same. Just sounds like you got to be a lot more careful.

The only thing I'm really worried about now is her dair now if it's slower on recovery since I used it a lot for baits and what-not in Melee.

[Master Peach]

No matter how many have claimed that Float Cancel is still in, it is out. No matter what I try to do,
I cannot get her to Float Cancel.

A lot of the time, it will look like a Float Cancel but it won't have been one. Why? Because all of her slow aerials got faster (most noticable on Fair, which is quite fast now) and pretty much every single one of her aerials have next to no lag on landing now.

This is why it looks and feels like people are Float Cancelling occasionally, people. The moves either just end before they touch the ground (no lag for landing during the aerial) or the lag was so negligent it wasn't really noticable.

How can I prove this? If you try to Float Cancel a dair, you'll see a few frames during which she goes into her lag-animation for Dair (apparently, her Dair lags "a lot" now). No matter what you do, that tiny lag animation will always be there.

There is no Float Cancelling, just optical illusions.

I want to thank you and now I hate you. I was so happy to hear that her float cancel was in. But now you've confirmed it to be gone!! WHY GOD!!! WHY!!! Man... Now I got some editing to do. Well the only upside is Peach is faster. Oh well. I still believe Peach will dominate Brawl. Thanks for the info Yuna. At least we have correct info now sigh... -_-;

[Master Peach]

Sry double post

[Yuna]

Dang, that sucks. However, if it's true and at least the rest of her moves got airel moves got faster, at least she can still almost play the same. Just sounds like you got to be a lot more careful.

The only thing I'm really worried about now is her dair now if it's slower on recovery since I used it a lot for baits and what-not in Melee.
Her dair is kinda bad now, though. Dair to Nair? Only in our fond memories.

The last hit of dair now launches opponents off the ground. Once they get a little damage, they'll fly really far, way too far to combo.

[Niko_K]

First of all, Its a different game, sure you can try reusing old tactics but I highly recommend making new ones to advance your play in brawl. It will ultimately be unexpected for a while before a lot of strats become standard.

Follow with Uair, t has more than ridiculous aerial range and I guarantee you will hit with it. You should use your jumps wisely, use for first jump for uair...then the second for a nair follow up, Air dodge to t he ground and grab or continue the aerial attacks.

[Dark.Pch]

.................................................. .................................

[Snakeee]

Dark Pch read this carefully.....apparently most of her moves lag so little that we wouldn't even notice it except with the D air. I don't know if this is true, but I'm gonna test it out this weekend. In any case, the lag is so negligible it may not really make a difference. When I played I could not tell that she was not FCing on any move so I'm still skeptical about this.

[Dark.Pch]

The only move that lags is her Fair you you fast fall early

[Snakeee]

The only move that lags is her Fair you you fast fall early

You mean IF you fast fall early right? So that wouldn't be a float cancel. If there's definitely a difference when you fast fell before you did the attack then FCing is definitely in...

[Dark.Pch]

I think you people need to understand the true meaning of FC, once again I'll just proof this on video step by step. Until then believe what you will. I wont argue about this till my new vids on this matter is out.

[Master Peach]

Dark Pch read this carefully.....apparently most of her moves lag so little that we wouldn't even notice it except with the D air. I don't know if this is true, but I'm gonna test it out this weekend. In any case, the lag is so negligible it may not really make a difference. When I played I could not tell that she was not FCing on any move so I'm still skeptical about this.

Same here. When I was playing I couldn't tell either if she was float canceling or not. She was just so fast I only assumed with other people that she was float canceling.

[Yuna]

I noticed something during my float cancel test and forgot to mention it.

You can "Float cancel" an attack before the hit box has come out. Re-read the first post for the full story.

[Emblem Lord]

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

The reign of Marth begins now.

Bow down to your king!!!!!

[Yuna]

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

The reign of Marth begins now.

Bow down to your king!!!!!
As opposed to in Melee when for years, Ken (Marth) (now Mew2King, Marth) and Ek (Marth) ruled the US and Europe side by side?

[Emblem Lord]

The reign of Marth in Brawl Yuna.

In Brawl.

;>_>

[NinjaLink]

U ppl dont understand how brawl works. I have tested it myself. The way lag works in this game is what part of the attack animation u land in. it has nothin to do with floating. This applies to every character not just peach. True FC it doesnt matter what part of the animation u land in. It acts like u never did the attack. This is not the case in brawl.

[Dark.Pch]

me looking at the vids of me and such and hearing about FC I noticed what was up.

There is No FC. As in You floating and fastfalling does not cut the lag off. Yet when I played with Peach I hardly lagged at all. So It came down to me thing you can FC all her air attacks.

Now why did it seem this way to me? Cause when I FC and air attack and landed, I landed at the right time. In other words, I was frame perfect. A Large % of the time I was able to move after an air attack. so it seem like I could Float cancel. And know it was the first time I touched Peach in Brawl and I was frame pefrect. I did not lag after an air attack. at times I did but rarely.

So Pretty much I'm good at FC and using her air attacks while doing it and know when to land so it makes it seem like her FC cuts the lag off an attack, which does not. So I can use her pretty fast and still do damage even though the nature of FC is out.

[Ankoku]

Or maybe the aerials are just ending long before you manage to actually land on the ground.

[superryan]

Or maybe you should read yuna's post also stop bragging already about "frame perfect" BS the game is slower anyway and "landing" isn't that hard lmfao.

[Yuna]

me looking at the vids of me and such and hearing about FC I noticed what was up.

There is No FC. As in You floating and fastfalling does not cut the lag off. Yet when I played with Peach I hardly lagged at all. So It came down to me thing you can FC all her air attacks.

Now why did it seem this way to me? Cause when I FC and air attack and landed, I landed at the right time. In other words, I was frame perfect. A Large % of the time I was able to move after an air attack. so it seem like I could Float cancel. And know it was the first time I touched Peach in Brawl and I was frame pefrect. I did not lag after an air attack. at times I did but rarely.

So Pretty much I'm good at FC and using her air attacks while doing it and know when to land so it makes it seem like her FC cuts the lag off an attack, which does not. So I can use her pretty fast and still do damage even though the nature of FC is out.
Yeah you see, do that against me and I'll shieldgrab and shieldhop nair/fair you so hard.

[Dark.Pch]

Or maybe the aerials are just ending long before you manage to actually land on the ground.

Maybe, ether way I got the timeing right so thats why I did not notice FC was gone.

Or maybe you should read yuna's post also stop bragging already about "frame perfect" BS the game is slower anyway and "landing" isn't that hard lmfao.

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]How about you hoop of my case. i read it and I agree, and I state why I did not realize it. and makes since.

I swear I cant figure you out, one day your cool, next you wanna attack me, just leave me alone already with crap like that. Just dont say anything to me if your gonna come out your mouth and leave me alone.


[Yeah you see, do that against me and I'll shieldgrab and shieldhop nair/fair you so hard.

Why are you on the attack for. i said I agreed and such. and that I did not noticed cause I attack at the right time so I was able to attack after.

First Ryan and now you? Geez, people just love a show or to start something now these days........./COLOR]

[Ankoku]

I'm just going by Occam's Razor here. Sure, you could be landing your aerials on the exact frame to have no lag and no wasted time in the air almost every single time. But a much simpler and more likely answer is that the aerials are just ending even before that so it's really hard to have lag in the first place. Frame-perfect is a really tricky thing to brag about when you've even got videos up.

EDIT: Okay, I just watched the videos more closely. Not frame-perfect, unfortunately. : \
But those aerials have ridiculously low landing lag. Like, half the lag you'd get from L-Canceling it in Melee (didn't frame-by-frame yet, so don't quote me on that). Still, it's still easy enough to see the different aerial landing animations.

[Dark.Pch]

I'm just going by Occam's Razor here. Sure, you could be landing your aerials on the exact frame to have no lag and no wasted time in the air almost every single time. But a much simpler and more likely answer is that the aerials are just ending even before that so it's really hard to have lag in the first place. Frame-perfect is a really tricky thing to brag about when you've even got videos up.


I'm not braggin.

And when I say frame pefect I just like you said it Janding where thete is not lag do I can follow up after. Maybe I should have re-worded that. But just how you said it is what I ment.

[Bronze]

So...technically float canceling is out. But if her aerials have 0 lag and can be used whilst dropping from a float very close to the ground, then whats the problem? It sounds like Peach can use her technique the same as before, just now theres no lag to cancel in the first place, except on her dair.

[.:~*Momo*~:.]

I was really disappointed when I read the title... but as I read the topic more and watched videos I feel as if I have to play the game before judging. @.@

[NinjaLink]

Once again. Every move has lag unless u land right when the attack is over or a certain frame of the attack. He said frame perfect cause its prolly the best way to say it short. Its not bragging. To master this game ITS NEEDED. U shouldnt go on about it until u actually played the game. And i say it again. Its not just peach its EVERYONE. U have to learn the frames to play this expertly. Watch my vids. Look at ny Pit. For pit EVERY AERIAL has lag but i do it on a way that it doesnt so im psuedo shffling it. But anyway im done here.

[Ankoku]

Being frame-perfect is rarely ever necessary, and if it is that's just an indicator of a poorly designed game. Being frame-perfect means getting the timing right down to the last 1/60 of a second. Like, you know the whole powershielding things in Melee? You need better timing than that because you have a 5-frame window for powershields.

I don't deny that Dark Pch knew how to take advantage of what he was doing, but I am a little leery of throwing around terms like frame-perfect when it isn't that.

[Dark.Pch]

Cant we drop this please, when I said frame pefrect I did not mean it lie if I was using AR. I ment knowing my timing so I would not lag and do another attack quickly after. thats all I ment. Now can we drop this?

[Rockin]

Okay, her FC is gone. One of the few signature things about Peach.

Listen...we have a nerfed Dsmash, Stich is not much of a Killing projectile, no wall bombing, and the technique to cute lag in half/completly make it dissipear is non existant in Brawl

I'm STILL gonna play her.

Why?

Because this is ****ing Peach. This is a new game here...and like in Melee, we're gonna find new tricks and such to play with here.

So instead of making a big fuss over it, let's just move on and make Peach the best she can be. AmIright?

[airgemini]

Have you guys looked at Niko K's videos?
He has tons of Peach techniques...Just watch them..

[crismas]

Is this more about the terminology or the fact that the moves can still be done.

[Rosedemon]

Okay, Dark Peach really confused this thread.

I think FC'ing is out, from what i read. But when terms like "frame-perfect" get thrown around by someone who is the self appointed, and I quote, King of Grabs, Upsmash God, and Up-B Master" things get confusing, and fast.

Also, the removal of FC'ing really takes away one of Peach's defining qualities. Even if it is possible to eliminate Peach's lag by landing the moment the attack is over, FC'ing was still a Peach only technique.

[Yuna]

Okay, Dark Peach really confused this thread.

I think FC'ing is out, from what i read. But when terms like "frame-perfect" get thrown around by someone who is the self appointed, and I quote, King of Grabs, Upsmash God, and Up-B Master" things get confusing, and fast.

Also, the removal of FC'ing really takes away one of Peach's defining qualities. Even if it is possible to eliminate Peach's lag by landing the moment the attack is over, FC'ing was still a Peach only technique.
You cannot eliminate the lag by landing the moment the attack is over. Because for all of her moves, the moment the attack is over, it's over! They have less lag now (unless you land during the attack).

[Dark.Pch]

Just to set the record straight, when I say float cancel for brawl, I clearly mean just floating. Thats it. Not Floating then fast fall with an air attacl or etc. Just basic floating in the air.

[Rain(ame)]

Ummmmm, From what I used with Peach, which was VERY short. The fact that you can't FC isn't THAT bad. However, I need to test this more. I was attempting a pillar. I can still do the action, it's just a matter of fact to whether it'll work or not.

[jdub03]

Once again. Every move has lag unless u land right when the attack is over or a certain frame of the attack. He said frame perfect cause its prolly the best way to say it short. Its not bragging. To master this game ITS NEEDED. U shouldnt go on about it until u actually played the game. And i say it again. Its not just peach its EVERYONE. U have to learn the frames to play this expertly. Watch my vids. Look at ny Pit. For pit EVERY AERIAL has lag but i do it on a way that it doesnt so im psuedo shffling it. But anyway im done here.

Is this you?

Nnjalink0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeSYkQkexuc)

[airgemini]

His brother....
Says it in the About This Video section..

[Yuna]

Just to set the record straight, when I say float cancel for brawl, I clearly mean just floating. Thats it. Not Floating then fast fall with an air attacl or etc. Just basic floating in the air.
That's not float canceling.

And how the heck does it differ from, you know, simply jumping and doing an aerial and not landing during it, anyway? Floating does not in any way give you magical cancel-lagging abilities in this game. If that's what you consider float-canceling, then every single character in the game has Jump Lag-canceling (jumping, aerialing, not landing while aerialing).

[Dark.Pch]

my point have nothing to do with cancelling a attacks lag whatso ever.And her Floating does not have any affect. That I get in this game already as I said before. Just floating in the air. How about I just say her juming her second jump and staying on it? Or her going Super Mario bros 2 style? I dont care about canelling attacks and such when I say that. Just her staying in the air. screw attacks lags and stuff. You know that thing that she does when you jump and hold down? Floating, thats what I mean, screw lag and everything else. The one thing she can do that other characters cant. How can I make this more clear to you. But you seem to thing when I say that I mean attacking, then fast fall and hoping I will end the lag of my attack. well I am NOT. I dont know how I can make this any simple to state my point. Hopefully somone will get it. If not oh well.

I agreed that its out (Now I think I have to make it clear, its out as in once you land with an air attack, there is no lag) So why you would think when I say JUST floating, You think I mean FC melee version when there is no lag when fastfalling an air attack. You can still float around in brawl with peach right?

And thats why at first I thought this was a joke thread. Cause I thought you ment she could not float around. And thats what I am talking about. Floating back in fourth, thats it, no ending lag, nada Just float and ended. Now I made this as simple as I can with what I mean. Now if you still dont get it nor anyone else, then its w/e.

Now to even break it down some more, hopeing you get it.

My version of float cancel = Float in the air (I believe thats how superdoodle said it was. He called her floating in the air Float cancel without even attacking, just float and land)

Your version and others = Float, do an air attack, fast fall, lag ends

I'm done in this thread. Laters

*Unsubscribes from thread*