Should Ness have returned?

[KumaOso]

I'm aware of the controversy surrounding this so don't flame me or anyone in this thread.

Personally, I think that he didn't have to return. The way I see it, Lucas took his spot as the main MOTHER character. After all, the kid was supposedly planned to replace Ness in Melee but he didn't because MOTHER3 got into development hell.

I think Ness' return was, at least partially, fanservice. If these two weren't so similar and fulfilling the same archetype in each of their games, I probably wouldn't care and probably no one else would care either.

[the gatherer]

i think mewtwo should have returned or at least have become a non playable boss because of ness's return but hey ness was an original and it seems like if a character was in smash 64 then they won't ever be taken out.

[KumaOso]

It does seem like the original 12 are untouchable. However, no one could make that assumption before Brawl came out. All we knew before release was that the original 8 were untouchable (although, why would you remove them in the first place.).

[NessOnett]

*flame, flame, flame*

no, seriously, Ness had to come back. Too many people love him and Sakurai will never touch the original 12(*knock on wood*). Lucas and Ness may be similar, but like in the same way that marth and ike are similar...they both fulfill the same role in their respective games, both weilding swords and leading their "armies," but they are entirely different in their developments as characters because of how they grew in their games. And as far as brawl is concerned, they all play completely differently.

[AsbestosBlatant]

Not even opening this can of beans.

Sakurai obviously thought he should have, and that alone should make moot the whole "he wasn't going to be in Melee" argument. Shouldn't Sakurai's decision be paramount, here?


Also: Above poster said it better than I could have.

[The Sleepy One]

A warrior with a bat and a yo-yo, that's why he should return.

[Levitas]

Don't come here with a topic like that. No character is a replacement for another, and lucas is nothing like Ness. Play the games, read the translation of Mother 3, do whatever it takes, and find out what I mean.

That being said, I'm finding it hard not to take this topic as an insult to my favorite character from any game ever. It's like saying that knuckles had his day in the sun, so let's forget he existed and move on in the sonic universe.

Please, nobody make another topic like this.

[courte]

yes [space] yes and yes again

[KumaOso]

After reading this post, my opinion on Ness' inclusion has changed. He may not be a deserving as a MOTHER character, but he's deserving as a Smash Bros. character.

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3851600&postcount=83

[Ademisk]

He's very deserving as a Mother character. Only a major fan of Earthbound really understands how great Ness is. He doesn't have to have development or speaking lines, he's just a kid with rosy cheeks and a yellow backpack who needs to give his mom a call from time to time. He takes out aliens with a baseball bat, and we love him.

[NessOnett]

Also: Above poster said it better than I could have.

I thank you for that compliment Asbestos.

After reading this post, my opinion on Ness' inclusion has changed. He may not be a deserving as a MOTHER character, but he's deserving as a Smash Bros. character.

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3851600&postcount=83

Happy your view has changed. I don't try to force people to love Ness, and don't think they should if they don't, i just never understood all the blind hatred towards him and people being outright outraged that he is back. He's earned his place, people need to learn to just let him be.

[AdmantNESS]

After looking at everything that happens in the game(Prepare for a rant), I'd say he is definitely deserving as a MOTHER character. To start, Ness got some indirect character development, though you have to pay attention to the dialog. Not as much as Lucas, but still development. It wouldn't be accurate to say he has NO development whatsoever. Here is my impression. Many Earthbound spoilers:

The journey from this point will be long, and it will be more difficult than anything you have undergone to this point. Yet, I know you will be all right. When good battles evil, which side do you believe wins? Do you have faith that good is triumphant? One thing you must never lose is courage. If you believe in the goal you are striving for, you will be courageous. There are many difficult times ahead, but you must keep your sense of humor,work through the tough situations and enjoy yourself.
Though a lot of silent RPG heroes are like this, by the time the second break happens:

You may have cursed this never-ending journey. You have known injury and defeat, but you have struggled on to reach this place.

Thoughout the game, a word continues to pop up. Destiny this, destiny that, prophecy and legend that...
Buzz Buzz: So you must now begin your adventure... ...The legends from the ancient times tell of three boys and a girl 'who defeat Giygas.
Paula: I had a dream that a boy named Ness was my destiny.
Paula's Dad:You must be the boy who will save the world, like in Paula's dream.
Belch:There's a prophecy that a boy will destroy Master Giygas.
The Talking Stone:Your destiny is not only yours...It's the destiny of the whole universe.There will be a time in which all of you in the universe will overlap each other.,
Voice at the breaks:You have an awesome destiny to fulfill.,
Talah Rama: This was destined to happen. In truth, all is pre-determined...Ness, Paula, Jeff, and Poo,when these four powers gather,twisted space will bring back peace to the world.
Monotoli:Ness! This is your destiny.
Poo's Master: I shall relay a message to you from Eternity.The evil entity that controls all wickedness is preparing for the greatest struggle of all time...The only ones who can challenge the entity are three boys and one girl.Once named Ness is the leader of the four.
Dr. Andonuts: Ness, activate the Phase Distorter 3 by your own hand,
'thereby following your own destiny...Yes, you must understand that the four of you are the chosen ones.
Ness to himself: Free your mind and KNOW what you must do! Your destiny has already been decided.

Ness and friends didn't journey because they wanted to. Its because they HAD to. They weren't given a choice. That VERY first bolded line flats out tells you that he probably never wanted to leave home in the first place(That's my impression). This becomes more evident in his home-sickness. He's not Link or a badass mofo, he's just a kid(10/12 in MOTHER 2(lurked Starmen.net), 13/14 in EB I believe). Ness is a kid who likes baseball and rockin and loves his family. A kid who has to travel the whole world to fulfill a destiny suddenly pushed on him from the first words coming out of Buzz-Buzz. Suffering, struggling, fighting just to fulfill a destiny that links everyone and everything together. Like Buzz-Buzz and voices said, he believed in the ultimate powers of wisdom, courage, and friendship, but that didn't stop him from feeling the burden of the universe and missing his home. Most of the RPGs I played, an unlikely team of heroes confronts evil, gets over their initial fears and eventually saves the world while resolving some goal that eventually falls into place in the very end. Well Ness and company had their destiny dropped on them without a say in the matter from day 1, and this does not change between the beginning and end of the game. And that sacrifice they made to just to arrive at the final battle is moving because they knew what would happen if they didn't go. Dr. Andonuts sums it up perfectly if you say no:Yes, it's natural to feel as you go. The only thing left is the destruction of our planet...[/I]

All of that speaks much about Ness. He may not have had a speaking line or direct character development, but he had to go through a lot and shouldered a massive burden just to save everyone. That is why Ness is my all-time favorite videogame character. When the MOTHER 3 translation is finished, I'll play it, but Ness will always be my favorite regardless of Lucas's story. I had to get it off my chest. Fell free to disagree.

[finalark]

One word: YES.

I like my Melee main and I am very joyful that he's back.

And I am now waiting for Mother 3 to come out in the US the way Fire Emblem did.

And it better be called "Mother 3" Nintendo.

[NessOnett]

And it better be called "Mother 3" Nintendo.

what would be the alternative? Earthbound2? Sorry, but it looks very likely that it will get a new name if it does come to America...just like Fire Emblem(which was the 7th one when it got here, but came under the name "Fire Emblem" only).

but on a slightly unrelated note, why would you tie in your anticipation of Mother3 to a thread about why Ness should be back?

[ShadowRegulus]

It was pretty dumb that they called it "Fire Emblem," sans subtitle. I mean, even the original game has a subtitle in Japan. There was no real reason to drop the subtitle for the overseas release..

[DeeDoubleU]

It's hardly like Mother 3 replaces Mother 2. They are just different. I'm glad Sakurai saw that and didn't take Ness out for Lucas and instead emphasized that the characters are different and have different experiences and attitudes.

[Drik Khaail]

For several reasons, yes, Ness should have returned. He has been in all of the series so far, and was the protagonist of almost 2 games, if you count Mother 1. , but something Mookierah said made me think; "Lucario is Mewtwo's reincarnation". Simply put, Ness could have had the same case with Lucas. However, You couldn't exactly compare mewtwo and Lucario to Ness and Lucas, but either way... I'm just glad he's back :]

[finalark]

what would be the alternative? Earthbound2? Sorry, but it looks very likely that it will get a new name if it does come to America...just like Fire Emblem(which was the 7th one when it got here, but came under the name "Fire Emblem" only).

but on a slightly unrelated note, why would you tie in your anticipation of Mother3 to a thread about why Ness should be back?

Yeah... just needed to say that.... I really want to play that game.

[Levitas]

Drik, I'd think Ninten would be a little offended at your analysis, lol. In terms of how they are, Ness and Ninten are similar, but Lucas doesn't follow that same kind of silent, strong, courageous profile that Ness and Ninten did.

[Ademisk]

And I think an analysis of anything said to Ness after ingesting booze is probably ridiculous too. He's freaking 12/14.

[Smashbros_7]

Who wants a character OUT anyway? Ness forSuper Smash Bros Apocolypese

[Tunaria]

Super Smash Bros Apocolypese

Ah, yes. The 9th Smash Bros game set to be released sometime in 2055.

On a more serious note, I'm just glad Ness made it to Brawl!:)
I would have lost both my mains if he didn't:(

I wonder if Sakurai's choice of words really was intentional or if he simply misspoke, or rather mistyped in this case.

[JoJoRukus]

I think it was mainly fan service, both because he was in the first Smash and he was the hero of Mother 2 (Who was the hero of Mother 1? A different kid, or was that Ness too?). Personally, I don't mind him being included again. If it would have made any difference, however, I would have easily cut him over Claus as the Masked Man, but I can't really make that call, I'm not the one making the game. XD

Overall, I'm happy to see him back. He was one of my favorites in in the original Smash, mainly because of his unusual Up Special. :D

[PrettyGoodYear]

Who wants a character OUT anyway? Ness forSuper Smash Bros Apocolypese

Poor Mewtwo.

And it should be called Super Smash Bros. Clash or something... Apocalypse is a dumb name.

Well... way back then, I wanted both Ness and Lucas, and maybe Claus. Then Lucas was announced, my faith in Ness dropped. I argued with Vesper that he was probably out... haha. Then the Up Until Now, bam, I was convinced. But I still wanted my 2 Mother reps, so I kept rooting for Claus. Then, Ness was announced. Irony? Well, I got my 2 Mother characters, though I became sorta attached to Claus in the way, so I'm sad he didn't make it.

[Bassoonist]

I don't really think he should have returned. I have a feeling that Sakurai again, had intentions to replace him, but he needed another character spot filled so he went with Ness.

[DeeDoubleU]

If he hadn't wanted to include Ness, he wouldn't have. He had no trouble at all not including Mewtwo.

Seriously though Basoonist, is that supposed to be a lame joke? It is most definitely not as though you can just "not have enough time" to NOT include someone. It isn't like the inclusion of Ness somehow took them negative amounts of work.

[Bassoonist]

If he hadn't wanted to include Ness, he wouldn't have. He had no trouble at all not including Mewtwo.

Not including Mewtwo was a terrible mistake, if you ask me.

Seriously though Bassoonist, is that supposed to be a lame joke? It is most definitely not as though you can just "not have enough time" to NOT include someone. It isn't like the inclusion of Ness somehow took them negative amounts of work.

Uh... yes it is. Several characters were not included in Melee because they didn't have the time to put them in (which was very understandable as that game...not this one... didn't have a lot of time in development. I still say Ness was just thrown in to fill a spot.

I really wish he (or Lucas) could have at least got an original moveset. >_<

[Arcade]

If anyone got thrown in last-minute, I'd say it would be Toon Link.

And for the last time, Ness and Lucas are FAR from the same. Their A moves and throws are completely different. Lucas has tether recovery with the Rope Snake. Even their shared B-moves are very different: Lucas's PK Fire is a fast one-hit move, while Ness's is a stalling multi-hit pillar move. Lucas's PK Thunder has completely different properties from Ness's. Lucas's PK Freeze is fast, hard to control, and is a combo move. Ness's PK Flash is a slow KO move for edgeguarding.

[DeuceBlade]

You would have to be either completely blind, or really dumb to think Ness and Lucas work/play the same... they are completely different characters with the exception of recovery... and even there it is a bit different.

[KumaOso]

If anyone got thrown in last-minute, I'd say it would be Toon Link.

And for the last time, Ness and Lucas are FAR from the same. Their A moves and throws are completely different. Lucas has tether recovery with the Rope Snake. Even their shared B-moves are very different: Lucas's PK Fire is a fast one-hit move, while Ness's is a stalling multi-hit pillar move. Lucas's PK Thunder has completely different properties from Ness's. Lucas's PK Freeze is fast, hard to control, and is a combo move. Ness's PK Flash is a slow KO move for edgeguarding.

I think Wolf was probably last minute, but I doubt it. Besides, it makes sense to include Toon Link if you think about it.

[Smashbros_7]

Plus none in America knows who Lucas was without
1. Smash Brothers.
2. Buying the game online.

[Foz]

After reading this post, my opinion on Ness' inclusion has changed. He may not be a deserving as a MOTHER character, but he's deserving as a Smash Bros. character.

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3851600&postcount=83

O_o My opinions have changed.

Hopefully, if there is an SSB 4 all 3 Lucas, Claus and Ness will be in. Though, it could be a problem if there is a MOTHER 4. =S

[DeeDoubleU]

Uh... yes it is. Several characters were not included in Melee because they didn't have the time to put them in (which was very understandable as that game...not this one... didn't have a lot of time in development. I still say Ness was just thrown in to fill a spot.

So let's get this straight...

Putting Ness in, reworking his moveset, and rebalancing him for Brawl took them negative work. Thats a bold assumption to be making. If you want to go by that logic, Mario, Link, Fox, and the rest of the entire cast from the previous games that have clones are the same way.

[TidalSpiral]

For me, I never liked Ness much in the first place, perhaps cause he was harder for me to control in SB64 (he really has the most awkward moveset in that game - doubt anyone will argue with that). However I submit to the whole "Great 12" title, and would have been a little bugged if we had ended up missing one of the originals.

Then again I'm not a fan of Earthbound/Mother anyway so my opinion here may not matter, but I'm glad in the Smash Universe to see him return. Perhaps just so I can K.O. him... but I'll tip my hat when the opposite happens.

[Levitas]

You'll be tipping your hat a lot.

[AdmantNESS]

I think Sakurai put it best:


Sakurai: You’ll need to log lots of time with him and really know his moves to really put him to good use, I bet.

[Ademisk]

Always been true with Ness. But there's still things good players know beyond knowing your own moveset that allow them to do that a LOT faster.

[Kiki52]

I think that many people on this forum were supremely angry when Ness was announced because he supposedly took the place of Claus, and that is why they wanted Ness to be out because Claus looks so cool. I could see Claus as a SSE enemy though, I think the fact that he has a lightsabre is cool but the lightsabre is already an item in Brawl so I don't think that it'd be a good idea for Claus to be in Brawl or SSB4. I would have chosen some other MOTHER character instead. It's the same reason why people hate ROB so much, Ness got a lot of hate in the past because, like ROB and Wolf many people thought that these two characters would have taken the place of otherwise more deserving characters like Claus, Ridley, Geno, or Krystal.

I like guys like ROB, I don't really like like them because I'll never play as them but I think ROB looks to be a good contrast to other characters because he's a non-organic being while everyone else is organic. ROB makes a good enemy to fight rather than play as.

But Ness is a classic, I jumped for joy seeing that Sakurai didn't cut Ness afterall. It still made me happy enough even though Sakurai or Miyomoto made the mistake of not having Miis for Brawl.

[Smashbros_7]

Claus isn't THAT cool, I mean we've never seen what he can Really do. Did he have his own game? Nope.

[Nothing Rhymes with Circus]

Claus isn't THAT cool, I mean we've never seen what he can Really do. Did he have his own game? Nope.Who says you have to have your own game to be cool? Half the Brawl roster (hell, probably more) is made up of characters who don't have their own games.