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omegablackmage
02-04-2008, 06:33 PM
Hello, I'm known as Omegablackmage on these forums and I am a dedicated Game and Watch main, since melee even. I started writing this guide shortly after the Japanese release of the game (Early February 2008) and I hope to outline the changes that have been made to Game and Watch since melee and how one might go about playing him in brawl effectively. I'm a part of the mages who have hosted the famous Cataclysm tournaments in the Northeast that were attended from all around the nation. Personally I have placed very well in brawl tournaments using only game and watch so I hope that you will find my information here to be useful and that I am qualified enough to write this guide.

Table Of Contents:

Pros/Cons List
Game and Watch Mechanical Changes
B Moves Analysis
A Moves Analysis
Grabs Analysis
Stage Analysis
Character Matchups
Resources


☼ Pros:

has a good edgeguard game due to good range forward air, back air, down air that spikes, down tilt and the frying pan for projectiles
has a great sheild pressure game due to the long range, multi hitting back air that hits grabbers.
has a great recovery that goes very high, can float horozontally after the peak, and can be cancelled by attacking after the peak
has a good grab game because his downthrow allow you to tech chase
is pretty strong kill wise, can use fsmash, downsmash, upsmash, fair along with the dair, chair, bair, and up air occasionally
gaw can bucket energy based projectiles, which ruins some opponents chance to be campy
has a huge amount of priority and disjointed hitboxes with most of his moves


☼ Cons:

gaw is very light, which means he'll die earlier than most opponents
gaw lacks a tight projectile game that allows you to pressure your opponent
has a lot of landing lag with aerials and cooldown on a lot of smashes and ground moves
has poor grab range
has somewhat telegraphed kill methods, making it sometimes hard to land a kill.


☼ Game and Watch Mechanics (and changes from melee)

* Shield is significantly improved from melee, you will find that you get shield poked about the same as any other character would

* Rolling and sidestepping both have more invincibility and less lag. Sidestepping can now be usefull without being punished and rolling is good for when you use it sporadically.

* Weight seems to be buffed a slight bit. Gw would be killed very early in melee, and even though he's the third lightest character still, the weights in this game seem to be much more balanced.

* Grab range and speed seem to be mostly unchanged. The range falls in the average range for non grapple grabbers, and speed is also pretty average. His pummel is very slow but hits for 3%.

* Has a pretty good fox trot for those who would incorporate this into their game, watch out for tripping though.

* Game and Watch's glide toss is very good but also very hard to pull off. To use this, in the beginning of your roll, throw an item using the cstick and gw will slide very far across the ground while throwing.

* Airwalking is possible for game and watch with his dair. To do this, run off the stage and press C down and then di back to the stage. If done right you'll be able to use your dair right next to the stage w/o needing to jump.

* Key stomping is possible by pressing down and then c down on a platform. this lets you hop up slightly as you dair with little lag. You can do this repeatedly with little lag and can hit a lot of people below you.

* Hugging is pretty easy to do with game and watch, simply run off the edge and then di towards the stage to grab it.

☼ B Moves Analysis-

Up B : The Firemen - (6%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Upb.png

☼ 8 startup (he jumps on 9)
☼ 5 frames of complete invincibility (frames 9 - 13)

GW gains a lot of height by jumping off a trampoline and then deploys a parachute at the peak of his jump which slows his fall and allows him to manipulate his trajectory on the way down.

you can attack out of the parachute portion which will cancel the slow fall
if you attack just as he is going to deploy the parachute, you will auto fastfall
this move is very good for catching characters that recover very high like pit and snake and knocking them back out
if you knock an opponent up on the stage and up b to a canceled fair or nair, you can begin to pillar the opponent in a sense. It is possible to di out of this pillar. Credit to hylian for discovering this.
if you do your up b before using your double jump, you can jump again in the air after you up b.
up b grants invincibility frames upon leaving the ground to about a third of the way up the jump.
when the base of the up b is used near opponents or teammates, you will push them up. This can be effective against some recoveries like ness.


Side B : The Hammers

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Judge.png

☼ hits on frame 16 (all hammers)
☼ hitbox lasts 16-22
☼ 25 cooldown
☼ 47 total

GW pulls a hammer out which is a random number between 1 and 9 that have varying effects. The random generator for these hammers follows these rules

On the first pull of a stock, you cannot pull a 1 or a 2.
On the second pull of a stock, you cannot pull a 1 or the last number you pulled.
For third and subsequent pulls, you cannot pull either of the last two numbers pulled

Because these rules are in place, it is a very good idea to "buffer" or waste two hammers after pulling a 9 because you know that those two can't be a 9. The effects of the hammers are listed below:

1 - 12% to self, 2% to opponent with no knockback
2 - 4%, little knockback to opponent
3 - 6%, knock opponent behing gw
4 - 8%, hit opponent away
5 - 12% total (4 hits, 3% each), electric stun
6 - 12%, fire hit that semi spikes
7 - 14%, food spawns next to gw that heals 4%
8 - 9%, opponent gets encased in ice
9 - 32%, opponent almost always gets instant k-o'd and gw taunts in the middle

Neutral B : The Frying pan - (pan 9%, projectiles 4% each)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Chef.png

GW pulls out a frying pan and begins to flip out fish, sausage, and steak. The projectiles will fly upward and then downward with varying arcs.

This move is good near the edge to pressure your opponents when edge guarding
The pan itself does damage and can be considered a semi-spike
This move no longer alters your falling speed
Some characters can be pressured on the stage when this move is used at a medium range as it can provoke them into right at you which will be predictable.
If this move is buffered (out of an air dodge for example), then gw will automatically shoot 5 pieces of food.


Down B : The Bucket

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Bucket.png

Collecting:
☼ begins collecting on frame 6
☼ minimum total time out without charge collecting: 50
☼ 13 cooldown (13 frames where the bucket is not out)
☼ after a charge is collected (when a bar fills up in the bucket, not the collecting animation) it takes 72 frames to shield

Releasing:
☼ Closest - hits on frame 2
☼ Midway - hits on frame 8
☼ Tip of the spill - hits on frame 14


GW pulls out a bucket that can catch any energy based projectile. Upon catching a projectile, GW gains invincibility frames and can catch any projectiles in succession. After three projectiles have been caught, GW can empty the contents of the bucket in front of him with a powerful hitbox.

This move is great for pressuring campers
Increases damage output compared to the input by a set factor
Move is the same strength when used in the air, different from melee
Works best out of down throw to tech chase.
The third collection has almost no catching lag.


Mr. Escalator revised the chart that categorizes the effects of the down b (ko's are referenced from the middle of final d)

18% damage, won't KO until well over 100
Charizard - fire breath
Ice Climber - breath
Bowser - fire breath
Ness - pk thunder tail
Ness - pk fire pillar
Lucas - pk thunder tail
Fox - back throw
Fox - forward throw
Fox - blaster (long range)
Falco - back throw
Falco - forward throw


25% damage, KOs around 65% with no DI
Lucas - PK Fire
Fox - blaster (short range)
Falco - blaster
Samus - uncharged shots
Peach - counter (pan foods)
DDD - beam attack from waddle

33% damage
Ness - PK Fire
Yoshi - Down B Stars
ZSS - uncharged neutral b
Kirby - frying pan

42% damage, KOs around 20% with no DI
Robot - optic blast
Mario - fireballs
Pit - arrows
Dedede - Up B stars
Lucas - pk fire explosion
Kirby - final cutter (short range)

44% damage
Lucario - uncharged energy ball

50% damage, KOs at 0% with no DI
Lucario - forward b (max range of move)
Pikachu - neutral B lightning (after the projectile hits the ground)
Wolf - blaster
Luigi - fireball
Kirby - final cutter (long range)
ZSS - charged neutral B

60% damage, KOs at 0% even with DI
Pikachu - down B lightning (can max in one go if you catch under pikachu on a platform)
Pikachu - neutral b (ball form)
Zelda - Din's Fire
Lucas - PK Freeze
Lucas - PK Thunder
Ness - PK Flash
Ness - PK Thunder
Lucario - fully charged energy balls
Lucario - forward b (closest range possible)
Samus - fully charged shots
ZSS - downsmash (any charge)
Rob - optic blast (charged)
Pit - arrows (charged)

See the resources section for better explanation on how the bucket works.

☼ A Moves Analysis-

Jab : The Greenhouse - (3% for initial jab, 2% for subsequent)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Jab.png

Single jab:
☼ hits on frame 4
☼ hitbox lasts 4-6
☼ 9 cooldown
☼ 15 total
☼ 1 frame of shieldstun
Combo hits:
☼ 3 startup (so it would hit on frame 12)
☼ 0 cooldown


GW pulls out a pump in front of him that has a puff of air as a hitbox. This can be done in rapid succession to hold your opponent up.

Ducking, jumping, and pressing b will cancel the rapid fire part the fastest. Sheilding will take as long as releasing a.
Single jabbing and dtilting alternated is great for sheild pressuring.
Use after an autocancelled nair and then grab right after for an excellent shield pressure technique.


Here's a list of projectiles that gw can cancel out with his jab. (courtesy of Neb)
· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link: Arrows (not fully charged), Boomerang
· Samus: Energy Ball (not fully charged), Missile (only seeker)
· ZSS: Plasma Laser
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanut (no lag/disintegrates)
· Pit: Arrows
· PT: Ivysaur- Razorleaf
· Snake: Missile (Slows momentum/redirects)
· Peach: Turnips
· Yoshi: Egg Roll
· IC (Ice Climbers): Ice Block (reflects back!)
· D3: Waddle Dee’s
· Ness: PKT
· Wario: Bike/Bike parts
· TL: Same as link
· Olimar: Pikmin
· R.O.B: Gyro (not fully charged)

Forward Tilt : The Chair - (10%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Chair.png

☼ hits on 10
☼ 35 duration
☼ Between 17-20 cooldown
☼ 4 frames of shieldstun


GW pulls out a chair holding it by the backrest. It extends in front of him with a long lasting hitbox (possibly the longest of of his single hitboxes).

This move has the potential to kill opponents around 120-150 if the move is still fresh
although the move looks like it would last a long time and would punish spot dodgers, the forward smash will be able to do this much better.


Forward Smash : The Match - (18-25%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Fsmash.png

☼ hits on frame 17
☼ 10 cooldown
☼ 42 total
☼ 6 frames of shieldstun

GW pulls out a match by the handle that has a flame atop of it that hits your opponents. The hitbox stays out for a while but is the strongest when first pulled out.

One of GW's strongest killing moves, you'll find yourself killing off the top/sides with this around 90-100%
The hitbox lasts a long time which means you can punish people who spot dodge the initial frames of the move
You can land this move pretty easily if you know which way your opponent will roll out your down throw
This move can be pulled out fairly quickly out of the shield


Down Tilt : The Manhole - (6%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Dtilt.png

☼ hits on frame 6
☼ Hitbox begins on frame 6
☼ Hitbox ends on frame 25
☼ 0 cooldown
☼ 2 frames of shieldstun

GW "flips" a panel in front of him that is a manhole cover. This is GW's furthest reaching move (other than oil panic) having had its range greatly extended from melee. This move will push your opponent away a formidable distance away from you when connecting.

This move is extremely good for edgeguarding characters that are coming to the edge horozontally or sometimes from below.
Being one of GW's fastest ground moves, your able to beat out a lot of opponents approaches on the ground by speed.
This move also has a lot of priority which allows you to outreach 95% of everyone else's ground attacks.

Here's a list of projectiles the dtilt can cancel out (Courtesy of Neb)
· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link: Arrows (not fully charged), Bombs (At a distance), Boomerang
· Samus: Energy Ball (not fully charged), Missile (only seeker)
· ZSS: Plasma Laser/Whip (Sweet-Spot)
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanuts (No lag/ disintegrates them)
· Pit: Arrows
· PT (Pokemon Trainer): Ivysaur- Razor Leaf, Charizard- Flamethrower
· Snake: Missile (Redirects), D-smash mine (Harmlessly detonates)
· Peach: Turnips
· Yoshi: Egg Roll
· D3: Waddle Dee’s
· Lucario: Shadow Ball
· Ness- PKT
· Wario- Bike parts/Bike
· Olimar: Pikmin (PWNage)
· TL- Same as link

Down Smash : The Hammers - (15-21% tip, 13-18% mid)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Dsmash.png

☼ hits on frame 15
☼ 10 cooldown
☼ 33 total
☼ 4 frames of shieldstun

GW pulls out two hammers on either side of him and slams them to the ground. This move sends opponents two ways: upwards very fast if you sweetspot it (end of the hammers) or to the sides pretty far if it wasn't sweetspotted.

Another one of GW's overpowered kill moves. Don't be surprised to be killing the heaviest characters at 80-90% when you sweetspot this move.
When not sweetspotted, you will send your opponent out at a near semi-spike trajectory which is hard to recover from.
Excellent move to use out of your down throw, whether your opponent techs it or not.


Up tilt : The Flag - (8%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/utilt.png

☼ hits on 13
☼ 29 duration
☼ Between 3-8 cooldown
☼ 2 frames of shieldstun

GW pulls a flag out above his head and sweeps it above him. Pops your opponent up slightly.

This move is good to catch your opponent in early as you can chain at least 3-4 in a row together w/o them di'ing out of it.
Doesn't hit as far in front of you like it did in melee, so don't depend on it doing anything but hitting above you.
Use neutral airs after they can di out of it for a truly devastating combo.


Up smash : The Helmet - (18-25%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Usmash.png

☼ hits on frame 24
☼ 10 cooldown
☼ 38 total
☼ 6 frames of shieldstun

GW has a diving helmet on his head and he rocks his head back and then forward. This will send your opponent upward.

Another great kill move, will kill opponents at even lower percents than the downsmash, which is absurd, easily his strongest smash.
Very slow, so don't use it too predictably, you will probably be punished for it.
Running behind your opponent and doing a sliding upsmash works pretty well because when he rears his head back it actually reaches back pretty far


Dash attack : The Headbutt - (11%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/DashA.png

GW puts another helmet on and runs forward with his head in front. GW will slow down as the move proceeds.

This move can hit opponents hanging on the edge and will spike them into the stage (excellent against mk)
Has a lot of priority and can cancel a lot of other attacks including marth's forward smash etc
Useful as a last ditch tech chase if your too far away to get a grab in
Could possibly combo them together like in melee if your opponent has bad di.


Neutral air : The Fishbowl - (first 3 hits are 4%, last is 5%, 17% total)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Nair.png

☼ hits on frame 7
☼ 34 duration
☼ 8 frames of midair cooldown
☼ 9 frames of landing lag
☼ 1 frame of shieldstun (Multihit)

GW pulls out a fishbowl above his head that has fish pop out of the top of it in a fountain like path. Each hit stuns and pulls in except for the last hit which sends your opponent upward slightly.

This move is excellent for combo'ing given that it is possible to chain at least 3-4 of these together for a lot of percent
This move has very little lag after landing from it making it excellent to pressure shields with.
It is possible to pull people down who are off the stage if you fastfall through them with the hitbox out.
If your opponent is above you on a platform, this is very good to pressure his shield with.
It is very difficult to airdodge through this move, use that to your advantage to punish air dodgers, also works well in conjunction with the up air spamming for when they try to air dodge through the puffs.


Forward Air : The Box - (16% early frames, 6% late frames)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Fair.png

☼ hits on 10
☼ 44 duration
☼ 22 frames of landing lag
☼ 5 frames of shieldstun

GW pulls out a box-like object (many names for this move are floating around) that hits opponents pretty far in front of gw. This move hits the opponent out and away and the move is strongest when first pulled out and weakens the longer it's out.

Has a lot of reach and can therefore win a lot of aerial matchups.
Don't use this move shorthopped like in melee, it has a lot of landing lag
Great for edgeguarding as it sends the opponent back out.
This move actually has a lot of strength to it, you'll kill with it a lot assuming its fresh


Back Air : The Turtle - (5 hits, 3% each, 15% total)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Bair.png

☼ hits on frame 10
☼ Duration: 39 frames
☼ 12 frames of landing lag
☼ 1 frame of shieldstun (Multihit)

GW pulls out a turtle with formidable range behind him. This move multi hits with the last hit knocking away. Also upon landing another hitbox is released.

Using spacing and this move, you can get an approach that is nearly unbeatable
This move can combo pretty well and it is possible to chain this attack with itself a few time.
This move works very well on people who shield as it eats the shield and has a landing hit to attack grabbers.
This move can cancel out a lot of projectiles out that you normally couldn't bucket due to its priority and range
It is possible to for your opponent to smash di out of this attack, but it shouldn't leave you vulnerable. Only characters with fast aerials can punish you for it, but this can also be avoided if you predict this will happen. If you have mk caught in it, and he di's out, he will dair you, so start shifting away from him, etc.


Here's a list of projectiles that the back air can cancel (Courtesy of Neb)
· Lucas & Ness: PKT
· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link & TL: Boomerang, Arrow, Bomb (Sweet-spot)
· Samus: Energy Ball (not fully charged), Missile, Ball Bombs
· ZSS: Plasma laser, Armor pieces
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanut (cracks)
· Pit: Arrows
· Pokemon Trainer: Ivysaur- Razorleaf
· Snake: Missile (harmlessly deflects)
· Peach: Turnips
· Yoshi: Eggs/Egg Roll
· IC: Ice Blocks (reflects/ splits on a sweet-spot)
· D3: Waddle Dee’s
· Lucario: Shadow Ball (not fully charged)
· Olimar: Pikmin
· R.O.B: Gyro

Up air : The Trumpet - (7%, 9%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Uair.png

☼ hits on 6
☼ 39 duration
☼ 9 frames of landing lag

GW pulls out a trumpet that is aimed upward above him that puffs out two hitboxes that pop your opponents upward. In addition an area to the sides and well above the hitboxes will be affected by significantly reduced gravity allowing you to push your opponent upward, even when you miss with the actual hitboxes.

To combo with this move now, you have to be very precise with the hitboxes as it is easy to knock your opponent into the "puff" zone
This move is good to annoy your opponent and possibly make them waste jumps or put them in a bad position.
It is possible to kill people off the top of the stage with this move although it is quite difficult to pull it off consistently.
In teams this move could be very useful to save your teammate or to mess up your opponents


Down air : The Key - (13%, 6%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Dair.png

☼ hits on 12
☼ 49 duration
☼ 15 frames of landing lag
☼ 3 frames of shieldstun (Aerial hitbox)
☼ 2 frames of shieldstun (Grounded hitbox)

GW pulls a key out of pretty good size and thrusts it below him. He is projected downward with a lot of speed (auto fastfall) and there is another hitbox released upon landing on the ground.

This move has a lot of priority and range and will beat a lot of uptilt/airs/smashes
On platforms, you can stab enemies below you and pressure them if they are shielding.
Check the mechanics section to see how to use airwalking and key stomping effectively.
This move isn't too good vs shielding enemies because they quickly learn to wait for the ground part of the hit and then grab. Newcomer game and watches will tend to overuse this move because they see how much priority is has. However, at high levels of play this move is punished rather easily.
This move can still spike if you hit with the initial frames of the attack
If you press down while auto-fastfalling you will slowfall, a property unique only to game and watch.


☼ Grabs Analysis - (3% for neutral grab hit)

Down throw - (6%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Dthrow.png

GW juggles the opponent and then throws them to the ground.


Your opponent can choose to land on your right or left side through DI
Your opponent can tech this attack by pressing l or r and can escape any supposedly "infinite" combos
Make good use of tech chasing to rack up a lot of damage
Fsmash, upsmash, dsmash, another grab, jabs, dtilts, and dash attacks all work very well to punish your enemies rolls


Mr. Escalator was able to find out when characters were able to escape the down throw to down smash combination. Any character can escape this combo by teching when they hit the ground to the left, right, or in place. This chart only shows when characters can roll away to avoid it.

Red Characters - you can't hit them with your down smash as they can hold left or right while being thrown to escape
Orange Characters - you can only hit them if they do a get up attack from the ground, they can buffer rolls to escape
Green Characters - these characters can buffer a roll to escape your down smash but if they try to time the roll, you will likely hit them
Blue Characters - even if they buffer a roll you can hit them before they move.

Heavy Characters:
Dedede
DK
Ganondorf
Ike (is orange for the first throw)
Bowser
Snake
Charizard
Samus
Link
ROB

Medium Characters:
Lucario
Luigi
Ivysaur
Yoshi
Wario
Captain Falcon
Wolf
Mario (60-70% he turns red)
Sonic

Light Characters:
Peach
Pit
Diddy Kong
Toon Link (40-50% he turns red)
Ice Climbers
Lucas
Ness
Zelda
Olimar
Sheik

Very Light Characters:
Marth
Pikachu
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Meta Knight
Fox
Falco
Squirtle
Game and Watch
Jigglypuff

Notes about this list
* Any character can tech roll to avoid this combo
* Take note that the lighter characters are much easier to hit than the heavier characters
* Some characters change color depending on percents (as noted above)

Some recent testing I did on get up rolls and tech roll lengths. I was unable to find any other testing data on this on the rest of smashboards so i decided to do a crude test myself. Heres what I found:

...............roll...............tech
gw..........1.5...............1.1
lucario...1.95............1.2
ganon....1.75............1.4
rob.........1.75............1.4
jiggz.......1.3..............1.45
kirby......1.5..............1.5
pikachu.1.2..............1.5
ness.......2.................1.5
sonic......1.75............1.5
bowser..1.1..............1.5
wario.....1.65............1.5
olimar...1.5...............1.5
icies.......1.65............1.55
lucas......2.................1.55
diddy.....2..................1.6
meta k..1.75............1.6
t link......1.7..............1.7
mario....2..................1.75
samus...1.85............1.75
zss.........2..................1.75
sheik.....1.75............1.75
lizardon.1.4.............1.75
captain..1.85...........1.75
pit...........1.5.............1.8
snake....2.4..............1.8
dk...........1.75...........1.85
fox.........1.9..............1.85
luigi........2.5.............1.9
ike..........2.1.............1.9
marth....2.1.............1.95
yoshi......1.7.............1.95
ddd.........1.7.............1.95
falco.......1.95...........2
ivysaur..2.25...........2
peach.....2................2
wolf........1.9..............2
link.........2.1..............2.1
zelda.....2.25............2.25
squirtle.1.75............2.25

(i apologize for the terrible formatting, thank vbulletin for that)

Basically the numbers themselves are arbitrary, only meant to be contrasted to one another. You will want to check the value for the characters and to see what color they are. If they can escape the dsmash by just holding a direction then you'll want to check and see how far they will roll w/o teching. From my experience, at higher calibers of play most people will tech the dthrow and only sometimes buffer a roll. So i decided to sort this list by the tech roll length.

I've also found that when the tech roll length goes past 1.6, it becomes difficult to tech chase in my opinion (mk's length).

Up Throw - (8%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Uthrow.png

GW juggles the enemy and then tosses him upward into the air.

It is possible for your opponent to di left and right slightly
This throw will rarely be used since it is very difficult to combo out of it and the down throw is almost always a better choice to do damage
Against characters that have either long techrolls, or get out of the dthrow combos easily you will want to throw them up to start up air juggling them to rack up damage with neutral airs. (Snake is a good example of this)


Forward Throw/Back Throw - (8%)

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Fthrow.pnghttp://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/Neb008/Bthrow.png

GW juggles the enemy and then tosses him upward and in front of/behind gw.

The enemy can di this move horizontally if going away from game and watch and almost vertically if holding towards GW
These throws are good to try and get your opponent off the stage and its possible to get them expecting a down throw and to DI the wrong way since the wind up is identical


☼ Stage Analysis:

Battlefield - It still has a lip under the stage, but it is much improved. I don't think i've been caught under it yet with gw's up b, so that is a definitely a plus. There really isn't anything on this stage that is pro or con for gw.

Final D - this stage is the new battlefield for gw as he can be caught under the sides quite easily. Other than that this stage is fine, but i would probably avoid counterpicking it unless your playing against a marth or someone else whom also gets caught under. You would probably want to play this stage against campy opponents like toon link to be able to avoid their projectiles easier.


Lylat - this stage also has a battlefield type lip that is possible to get caught under. Boundaries on this stage are nice, but the platforms don't really seem to offer gw any sorts of advantages. I find that I get caught under this stage more than others, probably because of the tipping. However the platforms are very nice for neutral air pressuring and if you jump under the stage you can neutral air through the bottom.

Yoshi's Story - im leaning towords this stage to be my counterpick. Reason being that the stage slopes downward and it makes it much easier to edgeguard people coming from below on their recoveries with the downtilt. The boundaries aren't really all that ridiculous so i would say this is probably my best gw stage. Against campy opponents it can be very annoying since such a large platform makes it very easy to hide. Also the right ledge you can auto stand by jumping from the ledge.

Smashville - the moving platform is definitely interesting, however gw doesn't have any good throws that can kill at early percents (given that the platform is near the boundary). Other than that, good boundaries and the lip doesn't hurt too much, pretty neutral for gw.

Pokemon Stadium - im very torn on this stage. I like it because you can attack through the ledges to hit people and there are a lot of walls that spawn to allow you to do infinites. On the other hand, i can't count the amount of times that i've been caught under the stage or i tried to dj on to the stage and got caught under. Use at your own discretion i suppose.

Delphino Plaza - stage is a pretty good choice to counterpick on. You can very easily attack through the underside of the neutral portion of the level with your nair to pressure pretty safely. Also there are numerous parts of the level that have walls/nooks where you can infinite any character with your dtilt against. Only falco can chaingrab you off the stage so i wouldn't play it against him.

Corneria - if this stage is on, then it also would be a decent counterpick. Very low ceiling in most parts will work well with your downsmash to get very early kills. A fin on the right side will allow you to rack up a lot of damage with your downtilt (this is an infinite against most characters till 130 percent or so). If your feeling ventrous you can also bucket lasers.

Luigi's Mansion - this stage i hate a lot with gw. The platforms and ceilings here don't play very well into combo's that gw has and it veeery easy for campy players to camp here inside the mansion. I learned first hand that i hate this stage, maybe you'll have better luck with it.

Hanenbow - this stage is good against those who can chaingrab you (falco). Also if you pick the light blue color apparently its pretty hard to see gw moving around, might work for you try it out.

Norfair - lots of platforms to attack through, pretty neutral stage for gw to play on, i would probably use this against a falco to nerf his chaingrabbing.

Pokemon Stadium 2, Frigate Orpheon, Halberd, Rainbow Cruise, Distant Planet, Brinstar - these stages all have little quirks to them, like orpheon flipping, brinstar lava, etc, but i don't think any of them hurt or help gw at all, i suppose using these stage would be entirely up to preference.

Pictochat - The edges are much more steep that that on yoshi's island, making it extremely easy to edge guard with the dtilt if you have decent timing. Also you can do the instant ledge get up on the right edge, which can be interesting if used right. Also it looks like you could get caught under the stage but there is an invisible wall there guarding that. Avoid this stage against lucario as it has a wall and he will live forever here.

These are my opinions on what i think are going to be the pretty common tournament legal stages. Currently I ban Lylat Cruise as my neutral ban, and lugi's mansion and hanenbow for my counterpick bans.

☼ Character Matchups:

Listed below are the common characters in tournaments (i'll get everyone eventually) and their matchups with game and watch. Also listed next to the name is who is in favor of winning (gw's number first, ie a 7/3 matchup is good for gw)

Dedede: 7/3
A very common character to see in tournaments, and lucky for gw players, this is one of his worst matchups. He can't chaingrab you, which is a large part of how he wins or at the very least racks up a lot of damage, all the grab does is toss you on the ground which you can roll out of. Make sure you aren't predictable in your rolling and you'll find you won't take too much damage from his grab combos. The range you have in the air vs him can be a lot of trade offs so watch out. When he's recovering you need to decide whether he's looking to grab the edge or land on the stage. If you can hog him in time, do that for a quick kill obviously, but if he's going above the stage do a neutral air under him and it'll pop him out of his up b, which you can follow up into an up b to send him back out. Continue this pattern for a while and it will rack up a lot of damage/anger the dedede. Other than those tips watch out for the range on his smashes and tilts and make sure you bucked the waddle doo's beam attack for free buckets.

Snake: 5/5
very tricky to play against. he has a lot of deceptive range and can rack up damage quickly, which is bad for such a light character. Snakes usually make good use of their grenades, c4's, and nikitas for ranged attack and their sliding up smashes to close the gap between you and him. The sliding up smash makes him one of the fastest characters to play against, which is bad if you play a very defensive style. To be good vs a snake player you need to get good at handling his recovery. For starters if you can grab him anywhere out of his up b and let him escape out of it (don't throw him) he won't be able to use his up b again. If you cant grab him, you'll want to interrupt his up b. This can be done by using your forward air (early frames) or by using your judgement hammers (4-9 knock him out consistently). If you can't knock him out, then wait for him to finish and snake players will usually air dodge which you can wait for that to end and up b him back off the stage. He'll have a hard time edge guarding you, other than trying for spikes and hitting you with nikita missiles (your up b will go through these), he doesn't have too much that you should worry about. On the ground vs him you'll want to make sure your spacing is very tight because this is one of your few advantages vs him. Get good at punishing his ftilts with fairs after sheilding them, and learn which moves out prioritize which. Your key will go through his up tilt and his up smash so keep that in mind.

Marth: 5/5
Keep your distance when playing against marth. His range is better than yours in almost every case, so you need to be able to move around his attacks with a lot of finesse. Using a turtle dance approach is probably a very good idea mixed in with a lot of dtilts (outranges most of his moves) to keep him away. Edgeguarding against marth is not too bad due to the fact that his recovery is pretty one tracked but don't try to interrupt his up b as the speed and priority is too high. If you space yourself just right you can dtilt his recovery like in melee, but its pretty tight spacing. Other things to keep in mind are that if your spacing isn't spot on, they can up b out of their sheilds against the turtle, so you have to watch out for that. If they start to use it alot you can punish them pretty badly if you space well enough, just watch to see which platform they are going to land on and strike.

Pit: 7/3
Luckily for you here you have much more range but you still have less speed. Most pit players that i've faced love to spam their arrows, so make sure you use your bucket when you can to keep them coming after you. Use your superior range to keep yourself out of grab/fsmash range that they love to abuse. Spacing fairs and bairs shouldn't be too difficult. When edgeguarding them, make sure you are constantly trying to take their jumps/up b's away by using your sausage or by being in general very agressive off the edge. If you dtilt their double jump attempts to grab the edge you'll sent them back out. Use this a few times to force them into their up b and then use bacon/up b to hit them out of it and to kill them. i've found that this works very well to kill pit off the stage.

Metaknight: 5/5
Much faster than pit and a lot harder to edgeguard. Because in general he has a lot more priority than pit its going to make this matchup a lot harder imo. Make sure your using your range to your fullest extent because this is one of your only advantages (other than being able to trade priorities). His lack of projectiles will play well into the hands of more defensive gw players as you can force him to come to you to make spacing mistakes. MK players usually will try to approach from the air with fairs, with dash attacks that move past you, with grabs, or the tornado. All except the latter, you can duck/dtilt to send them back out, and especially if you know your going to hit you can chase this and punish them. Capitalize on any grabs you get and follow up for good tech chases to rack up dmg. Make sure your looking for every oppourtinity you can to get a sweetspotted dsmash in or an upsmash. one of mk's weaknesses is that he's very light and you can kill him at like 80 percent or so with a dsmash. I have found that its difficult to punish a spamming tornado MK player. Some moves seem to cancel it at random, like the bair or fsmash and the like but i wouldn't depend on it too much. Your best bet is to up b as soon as you see them do it to get above quickly and then dair through the top to knock them out, which is a sure fire way to hit them. If you do get hit, mash up and try to air dodge out to minimize the damage taken.

Ike: 6/4
He has much more range than you, but also a lot less speed. Because of his poor speed i don't see a lot of people playing him very defensively, it would be too hard to react to mistakes made. Thus, your best bet is to wait for them to try and approach you with fairs and side b's. Learn their range well and step in with bairs to counter. Eating his recovery is pretty easy, if you jump in front of his side b before the ledge, he'll die, and if you can gimp him low enough he can't reach with his up b with your dtilt.

Toon Link: 4/6
Pretty much a pain in the ***. His extremely good projectile game forces you to go after him (you can't absorb anything he throws). Thus you have to learn how to dodge boomerangs and the like with air dodges to move in. Turtle dancing works well to cancel most projectiles and to approach the tl themselves. Once in sword range, make sure to keep your spacing well because their moves are very quick and annoying with a ranged grab to boot. Edgeguarding isn't always very easy, all i can say is to follow up your combos off the stage to force them to death.

Olimar: 5/5
Another difficult matchup. Because his grab range is so huge, it makes it exremely difficult to space back airs without being punished. If you do it just right i believe you can dodge before he can grab you, but again, not easy to do. Work on forcing him to take hits from your back air to start combos up. This matchup is also hard because he forces you to go to him with him throwing pikmin all the time. Work with what you have and remember in most cases you have more priority and range than him. Watching out for that grab is probably the hardest part. Make sure to abuse his terrible up b and be hogging the ledge often. Another thing that i have noticed playing against olimar players is that they assume that their upsmash will cancel anything that comes at them from above, which turns into a bad habit. Your dair will always go right through and hit olimar which is a big plus.

Rob: 7/3
a tough match, but definitely in gaw's favor. most cases you will have more range than the rob player, which is where they place a lot of their game. In the air make sure your spacing is tight and you can beat most of their attacks out. On the ground make sure your bucketing their laser beam attacks and avoiding the d smash the best you can. It will catch you a lot when you think you'll be safe, which is a big adjustment to make. You can di out of it if you can mash up enough times, but its really only worth it if you think you'll die. When he's recovering the best way to edge guard is to work on spacing fairs to continuously send him out and use your up b for when he tries to go above you. Repeat this process to get him to waste his up b fuel which regenerates only upon landing on the ground. If he does happen to get past you with his up b (goes too high) make sue you abuse your up air because unless he gets hit or touches the ground he can't airdodge. Rob is probably the best at edge guarding you of all the characters, so make sure you know how far your recovery can go and where you need to recover from. They like to chase you relentlessly off the stage so it isn't uncommon for you to back off to much and not be able to recover. If you see this about to happen just up b early, its better to get hit than die so just take the hit.

Wolf 6/4
GW definitely has the advantage here, mainly due to sheer range advantage but keep in mind that there are still a lot of things you have to watch out for or you will be in trouble. First, is that wolf players love to spam their blaster, and for good reason: its quick, has good stun, and does decent damage. If you catch the blaster at the very end of its range with the bucket you can avoid getting hit by of wolf's attacks, which is a nice plus. Besides the blasters, wolf players will make good use of their forward smash and back airs to get approaches in. The dtilt will at least cancel the fsmash, which is his largest ranged attack, which is something to get used to. Other than sliding upsmashes there shouldn't be too many tricks to look out for.

Zero Suit Samus 5/5
WOW pain in the arse, but theres hope enough to make this an even matchup. ZSS is way too good at keeping her distance from gw given the forward b, neutral b, upsmash, forward smash, and up b. All of these moves will out range all of gw's moves by a large extent. At the very least you can bucket the neutral b and her downsmash (surprisingly). She is capable of chaining downsmash stuns together if the player knows what their doing. Its difficult to do any fairs or bairs without getting grabbed as well if they are shielding. Another difficult thing to deal with is that her jab is hard to punish along with the dash attack to uptilt. You'll find that she can chain her upairs together for devastating combos, and it can kill at very early percents. GW also has a hard time edge guarding her because she has so many different options to recover with. Things you have going for you are that you are one of the few characters that can punish her for hitting your shield with the forward b (forward air punishes) and that you can bucket the neutral b. This helps to minimize her camping game. In addition you are also quite a bit stronger than her kill-wise and you should be finding that you'll get the kills much earlier than her assuming you can avoid the bair, uair, and forward b. This is probably one of gw's worst matchups imo.

Donkey Kong 5/5
This character is quite the handful, especially when underestimated. He probably has some of the longest reach in the game next to zss. His ftilt, dtilt, fsmash, bair, dair, down b, and neutral b all have very surprising ranges that can easily beat your moves if placed right. He also happens to have an incredibly long grab reach which is annoying to deal with. When he cargo throws you watch out for him to run of the stage and throw you into it. You can tech it if you have the timing for it or simply mash out of the grab. If you do happen to tech it make sure to hog him immediately after. If they see that you can tech it they will probably run off the stage and down throw you, which shoves you quite far away from the stage, i would probably recover asap because it might be possible for him to edgehog you with this. Overall your going to want to watch out for the fully charged giant punch (it has super armor watch out!), the dsmash (good range and kills up), and the usual fsmash/upsmash if they can space it right. The down b is also hard to approach against if the dk knows what they're doing because the range has been increased quite a bit. Overall your going to want to make sure your punishing his huge size by turtling alot and getting solid combos. Edge guarding will be your strong suit in this matchup because his is so one tracked.

i will probably be updating the following characters in the next update or two:

Lucario 7/3
Kirby 7/3
Bowser 8/2
Falco 7/3
Wario 7/3
Zelda 8/2

☼ Resources:

Neb's Projectile Defense Thread (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169446)
Mr. Escalator's Oil Panic (down b) thread (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=168077)
GW Video thread (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147831)


Ok well this is all i have for now, feel free to post any suggests, typos, questions, or complaints you might have so i might make this guide better.

<edit 1> fixed typos and added comments and updates to the key, foxtrot, nair, uair, dtilt, neutral b, bucket, hammers, ftilt, utilt, and usmash.
<edit 2> rewrote the up air section (a friend suggested that it was a bit confusing), made slight changes to dair, upsmash, dash attack and other moves.
<edit 3> added percents to all the moves and made slight changes adding uses for moves
<edit 4> added more notes to most moves, threw in hylians pseudo pillar, and the percent/knockback chart that sodacova made. Also threw in a first version of a stage pro/con for gw.
<edit 5> added a few characters into a character matchup section
<edit 6> asthetic changes, added dthrow roll section from mr. escalator, up b tricks
<edit 7> added pictures sent to me by escalator, added color scheme, bulleted for neatness
<edit 8> added wolf/zss in char matchups, more pictures.
<edit 9> added projectile cancellation list, thanks neb
<edit 10> added resources section
<edit 11> went through and updated small things here and there

to do list:
☼ finish character matchup section
☼ get some videos out to show how to use the character a bit

thanks to:
neb for the pictures

skullkidd
02-04-2008, 06:42 PM
Aw man, I'm gonna miss the parachute Nair.
But who really cares, G&W is just for show.

ss118
02-04-2008, 08:51 PM
I love his new up B!!!!

I loved his onld nair!!!

I saw the WW videos, and G+W seems like one of the more technical characters. I'm more of a technical player myself, so Ill take advantage of that.

Also, his shield is MUUUUUUUCH better, and was one of the many reasons he wasn' top tier. and his aerials look like they're "pre" l-cancelled, but i guess its a comparison of Bair lag from melee into brawl

Red7z7
02-04-2008, 09:35 PM
one question: do the pan-launched foods still have the same hit effect as in melee, where the opponent would be frozen in the air for a split second?

Lag
02-04-2008, 10:09 PM
I might have overlooked your guide (or a spoiler haha, but good job anyways.), but how about Mr. Game and Watch's dash attack?

omegablackmage
02-04-2008, 10:39 PM
ah yes all good questions:

- frying pan foods still stall the opponent, which will be good for edgeguard setups

- dash attack still has the deceleration and same knockback direction, i'll add this in

- lets just assume that his nair is different. its still good for combo setups, and to be quick combo breakers. Its by far his fastest aerial so thats a definite plus. His bair, nair, and fair all can still kill so theres still a lot of good eh?

Lipucd
02-04-2008, 10:46 PM
one question: do the pan-launched foods still have the same hit effect as in melee, where the opponent would be frozen in the air for a split second?

AFAIK Yes, They still set-up in air for some nice Fair's XD

Mr. G&W Looks greatly improved, somehow feeling like he's in melee even with everyone else being so dang floaty!

I can see Mr. G&W being used alot in Brawl!

Speedsk8er
02-04-2008, 11:47 PM
I can see Mr. G&W being used alot in Brawl!

I hope not. I don't want GaW to be the Marth/Sheik of Brawl.

NESSBOUNDER
02-05-2008, 07:28 AM
Hey, something you may like to experiment with:

Over at the Lucas threads, we've just discovered that Lucas's up smash has some super armor frames.

Lucas's up smash is an incredibly slow and hard to land attack. Since Game and Watch's up smash also seems to be a very slow and difficult attack to land, it would make sense that there may be some super armor frames on this move as well.

Especially since he's wearing a scuba helmet. :)

omegablackmage
02-05-2008, 10:03 AM
good point, good point. afaik, none of gw's attacks have any super armor but i'll be sure to check out if his up smash in particular does

A2ZOMG
02-05-2008, 11:03 AM
So G&W still has ridiculously good offense which just got better, AND his defense is fixed? My god, he's going to be top tier! I'm for that!

I mean seriously, if not Mario, G&W is an extremely iconic character to Nintendo.

sodacova
02-05-2008, 11:03 AM
His bucket (down B) seems to have much better range for catching projectiles. I was playing against a Lucario and I was able to catch some energy balls that were well above my head. I don't know if he can catch stuff below him too, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I think the changes to his neutral air and down air really hurt G&W's edgeguarding game. This was one of his main strengths in Melee so I'm a little disappointed with that. I wish they hadn't taken away the parachute, but at least they should've given its replacement, the fishbowl, some knockback. The fishbowl really seems a lot like the turtle. It hits several times and is good for doing damage, but has almost no KO potential. Basically G&W lost his best KO move.

I like that they made his down smash useful. I like the changes to his recovery move. I don't like what they've done with his down tilt. It used to be great for getting your opponent in the air and starting combos. Now it's more like Marth's down tilt, only it doesn't have nearly as much knockback. It's still quick and has good reach, maybe even more than before, but you can't really follow it up like you could in Melee. I also don't think it's as useful for edgeguarding as it was in Melee because of how easy it is to grab the edge in this game.

A2ZOMG
02-05-2008, 11:05 AM
I think the changes to his neutral air and down air really hurt G&W's edgeguarding game. This was one of his main strengths in Melee so I'm a little disappointed with that. I wish they hadn't taken away the parachute, but at least they should've given its replacement, the fishbowl, some knockback. The fishbowl really seems a lot like the turtle. It hits several times and is good for doing damage, but has almost no KO potential. Basically G&W lost his best KO move.Wait, I thought his F-air was his main ledgeguarding move. Much faster, and it also is a pwn hitbox that pwns. That by far sounds like it's intact, so ledgeguard with that.

sodacova
02-05-2008, 11:24 AM
Wait, I thought his F-air was his main ledgeguarding move. Much faster, and it also is a pwn hitbox that pwns. That by far sounds like it's intact, so ledgeguard with that.

His f-air is still good, but you really can't compare its hitbox with that of the parachute. With the parachute you could hit from above, from below, from the side, or really any angle you cared to. Just jump out there and put a parachute between your opponent and the ledge, and they're dead.

When I say G&W's edgeguarding game was hurt, I mean he really only has the one option now. Before you could use the f-air, the d-air, or the parachute depending on the situation. Now the f-air is the only one you can safely use, because the fishbowl isn't gonna do anything and if you try the d-air you'll go flying down and may not be able to reach the ledge again.

Red7z7
02-05-2008, 02:50 PM
im not sure which vid i saw it in, or if i even saw it at all, but what i THINK i saw was gaw using his dair, but without the fastfalling effect that weve all noticed. perhaps if you dair and press up right after it will come out similar to melee? i think this is something worth testing

A2ZOMG
02-05-2008, 06:21 PM
His f-air is still good, but you really can't compare its hitbox with that of the parachute. With the parachute you could hit from above, from below, from the side, or really any angle you cared to. Just jump out there and put a parachute between your opponent and the ledge, and they're dead.

When I say G&W's edgeguarding game was hurt, I mean he really only has the one option now. Before you could use the f-air, the d-air, or the parachute depending on the situation. Now the f-air is the only one you can safely use, because the fishbowl isn't gonna do anything and if you try the d-air you'll go flying down and may not be able to reach the ledge again.

You're forgetting the B-air, and G&W's awesome tilts and Smashes.

The B-air, doesn't it now kill in Brawl? His D-tilt has more range, so it can probably guard ledges better than anyone else can. Yeah, and the D-smash too is overall improved according to this guy's reports.

Kips
02-05-2008, 06:23 PM
From what I've read, thank you for your information! G&W was a main of mine in Melee and he certainly will retain his status for that in Brawl. Go G&W!

DeuceBlade
02-05-2008, 08:06 PM
Can G&W still chain together his dash attack?

Red7z7
02-05-2008, 09:18 PM
i think most of what yall are saying is pretty true, but i wanna address the edgegaurding issue a little further.

someone mentioned better dtilt and smashes will help his edgegaurding game, but i dont think this is quite true. pretty much in brawl, camping on the edge with an attack isnt going to stop anyone from recovering like the old days, because of the new edge-snap feature. youd need a giant hitbox that could cover the entire edge in order to do that.

the loss of parachute and "floaty" dair will hurt his edgegaurding game for sure (im still waiting to see if my theory on being able to slow the dair is true, tho) because he wont be able to jump off the edge for the kill nearly the same way he did in melee. however, he still may be better than most characters in this regard simply because gaw's own recover is so good. im imagining him jumping WAY off the edge for a fair or bair and then recovering still, because the parachute can carry him all the way back.

i think we will have to wait and see how the new brawl edgegaurding facet of the game evolves as people learn their characters more.

sodacova
02-05-2008, 10:47 PM
im not sure which vid i saw it in, or if i even saw it at all, but what i THINK i saw was gaw using his dair, but without the fastfalling effect that weve all noticed. perhaps if you dair and press up right after it will come out similar to melee? i think this is something worth testing

I've noticed that if you do a d-air after getting hit, you won't do the fastfall. I think this only works if you're still tumbling in the air, so if you jump or shake out of it and then do a d-air you will fastfall.

omegablackmage
02-06-2008, 12:02 AM
i think maybe only the first dair after jumping does the fastfall, but yeah it is possible to do the dair w/o fastfalling.

the nair was nice yes, but edgeguarding in general has been nerfed. IMO, moves with more forward reach will be required to kill so fair is the best bet.

dtilt is nice for side recoveries ie ike, metaknight, falco/fox/wolf, or just any character jumping to the stage from a side a bit will get hit by it and pushed away.

Kips
02-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Well as long as jumping off the edge to attack someone is still intact, I'm happy.

Lgndknight
02-06-2008, 11:13 AM
you didnt add the Octopus?

omegablackmage
02-06-2008, 11:37 AM
i think the dair only fastfalls if your rising in the air after a jump or maybe getting hit, and slowfalls when your on your way down, not entirely sure.

octopus is only generated from an item, and i don't really care to write down gw's item statistics.

gw taunts while hitting with the 9 hammer, pretty funny

Kips
02-07-2008, 11:14 AM
i think the dair only fastfalls if your rising in the air after a jump or maybe getting hit, and slowfalls when your on your way down, not entirely sure.

octopus is only generated from an item, and i don't really care to write down gw's item statistics.

gw taunts while hitting with the 9 hammer, pretty funny

Well no, one would fastfall because they slammed down the stick to do the D-Air. This is remedied by using the C-Stick for it, which is how I do all of my D-Airs with any fastfaller or the like.

omegablackmage
02-07-2008, 04:47 PM
no because when i shorthop dair with gw i use the cstick, and he fastfalls, so thats not it.

if i had to guess it has something to do with getting hit, thats about it, or if you use it a second time in the air.

gevenstaines
02-07-2008, 09:56 PM
thank you.
a question re: up air: are there two hitboxes (diagonally up-left and up-right) that cause this effect of upward acceleration?

i loved melée GW but i could never win with him due to his light weight, dying at 80% or less. perhaps things will be better in brawl...

Kips
02-07-2008, 09:59 PM
no because when i shorthop dair with gw i use the cstick, and he fastfalls, so thats not it.

if i had to guess it has something to do with getting hit, thats about it, or if you use it a second time in the air.

Perhaps he auto-fastfalls when he does the D-Air? I heard something similar may have happened to Marths D-Air to make it weaker.

omegablackmage
02-07-2008, 10:57 PM
no, picture the dimensions i described, but like in a box fasion above gw. Its a very large area, just very hard to describe where it is. All of my roomates claim that it is very annoying when i suspend them in the air so thats good.

Puddin Master
02-07-2008, 11:38 PM
So, how much better is Game and Watch?

omegablackmage
02-08-2008, 01:47 AM
i would guess that game and watch will be high to upper tier in this game, he has so much going for him now. Its good that he's better now but i feel like he'll be quite the common tourney character which kinda sucks i guess.

Tonb3rry
02-08-2008, 05:45 AM
I hope he won't, cuz I'm glad that I can play my favourite character in Brawl now, as a tourney char.

Btw, I just have to add: I've done the dair without auto-fastfall, though I'm not sure how I did it.
If anyone discovers a strat to do it, tell me. It is possible, and I've done the same thing with Toon Link as well...

Kips
02-08-2008, 10:51 AM
Apparently he's a lot less clunkier and that was what was holding him back. Game and Watch for god tier?

omegablackmage
02-08-2008, 07:35 PM
no gw isn't that good
characters like pit/meta/marth and such are for sure better than him, but hes gotta be high to upper tier for sure

alphameric
02-08-2008, 10:36 PM
I just got back from playing a good few hours from brawl as GaW.

He rapes.
He is so ****ing ridiculous.

Turtle wall -> platform -> up-b -> fair.. SO good

The new nair is fantastic.
Originally I thought I would dislike the adjusted dtilt, but since he doesnt have the parachute, it's really not a problem.

The fsmash is much easier to di, making the dsmash probably your best bet to ko people (dthrow -> dsmash = RAPE).

The uair is probably my favorite change, you can stop anyone trying to attck from above before they are even in range. ANY air characters will have trouble fighting GaW. It's just that good.

god****, I am really pleased with him

Kips
02-09-2008, 12:02 AM
Well now we know his B-Air is even better then it used to be, and it used to be pure comboliciousness back in the day.

Speedsk8er
02-09-2008, 08:45 AM
I just got back from playing a good few hours from brawl as GaW.

He rapes.
He is so ****ing ridiculous.

Turtle wall -> platform -> up-b -> fair.. SO good

The new nair is fantastic.
Originally I thought I would dislike the adjusted dtilt, but since he doesnt have the parachute, it's really not a problem.

The fsmash is much easier to di, making the dsmash probably your best bet to ko people (dthrow -> dsmash = RAPE).

The uair is probably my favorite change, you can stop anyone trying to attck from above before they are even in range. ANY air characters will have trouble fighting GaW. It's just that good.

god****, I am really pleased with him

On one hand, I'm SO happy to see this.

On the other hand, NOW EVERYONE'S GONNA USE HIM. D:

Kips
02-09-2008, 11:00 AM
I'll still miss the Parachute though. Does anybody know if the Up+B's parachute does even remotely close to that damage?

Lag
02-09-2008, 12:37 PM
All I can say: Mr. Game and Watch for the win.

And yes, I'm going to miss his rarity in tournaments.

With the new buffs/changes, I can see it now:

Back in Melee days...

SomeGuy: "DUDE MR. GAME AND WATCH SUXZORZ1!11!"

SomeDude: "Nah you just don't know how to use him...don't know how to adapt...etc etc."

Future of Brawl days...

SomeGuy: "WOW MR. GAME AND WATCH IS KOOL NAO, I'M GONNA MAIN HIM NAO KTHXBAI."

SomeDude: (utter silence...)

We're gonna see lots of Mr. Game and Watch haters become...you know.

Bandwagoners.

56k
02-10-2008, 05:00 AM
I also just got back from playing a good few hours from brawl as G&W.

I agree with EVERYTHING alphameric said. ZOMG he's so much better! I'm not gonna say top tier material but he is SO buffed lol. Bair is ****ing ridiculous.

Ftilt is a KILL MOVE, it's ridiculous. Dtilt is bigger, blah blah blah. They're already told you. Sooo awesome, G&W is the only character I'm going to use, screw ROB lol

My only trouble was that I like to spam fair in Melee, and with the new stale moves effect if you spam fair it will not be a kill move until you use some other moves to refresh it.

Also, when you dthrow someone they stick to the ground and roll. If you correctly guess which way they roll, you can run over there and hammer them. I did it a few times, but I got a 1 and a 4 :urg: just like in Melee lol

Heh G&W can't be cg'd by Dedede :laugh:

EDIT: OMFG I just remembered, DO NOT use dair move while off the stage, you will plummet embarrassingly to your death ;_;

Is there a way to cancel the dair? >_>