Attention previous Ness mains: bad news.

[NESSBOUNDER]

It has just been brought to my attention that nobody in the game can double jump cancel.

We should start thinking about how the loss of this vital technique will effect the character.

[FunkMaster]

the lack of a double jump cancel may be useful for Ness since he has that same F-air.
Maybe when recovering you could do a fair during your jump to give a sort of guard.
Maybe.

[saratos]

Yeah, this is very disappointing. Even though it wasn't supposed to be there, it felt like a part of the characters that had it.

[NessOnett]

i have stopped using it while re-practicing with Ness in melee, and after a little bit i have gotten used to its absence. It is not bad news for me as i have some ideas for how i can use this to my advantage, and i like the differences in the new game...i dont want to feel like im playing the same Ness as in melee.(i mean seriously, after 6 years...)

[DeuceBlade]

Yes but wave dashing was also removed which levels out the playing field some what.

[Levitas]

WOAH, WOAH, hang on there.

First of all, saratos, DJC has been in two games. If it wasn't supposed to be there in the first or second, it would have been extraordinarily easy to spot and remove. In melee, it was on several characters. DJC was NOT a mistake.

Second, NessOnett, if you're getting used to it not being there, then simply use short-hops more frequently for low aerial, because Ness will be able to do a whole list of new things with his lack of DJC.

For example: Double jump quickly in a DJC-like fashion into a spike, hitting with them, causing them to be popped up off the ground, and then guess what, you're up in the air with them in a great position to back air! Or Uair! whatever floats your boat.

Or, for edgeguarding, rising spikes/fairs/nairs will NOT kill you!

DJC has been an interal part of playing Ness, but without it, he'll still have shennanigans.

EDIT:
PS, deuceblade, Wavedashing was doing a great job of keeping non-genius players in the competitive scene. It's absence is not gonna do much "evening of the playing field" unless it's between someone who's rather uncreative and someone of mild intelligence.

Oh, and Ness may have a sort of "wavedash" which is: Doublejump immediately, while moving down and at an angle in his jump, airdodge, which will land you. If landing out of a wavedash conserves momentum, this will serve as an interesting substitute.

[DeuceBlade]

I agree, even without DJC Ness still has short hop into f-air,n-air, b-air which should still be quite threatening.


Does anyone know if his fdash still can force people into the air?

[Conformal_Invariance]

I agree, even without DJC Ness still has short hop into f-air,n-air, b-air which should still be quite threatening.


Does anyone know if his fdash still can force people into the air?

Yeah, still pops.

[dan smith]

I'll probably switch character. : o

[NessOnett]

Second, NessOnett, if you're getting used to it not being there, then simply use short-hops more frequently for low aerial, because Ness will be able to do a whole list of new things with his lack of DJC.

Oh, and Ness may have a sort of "wavedash" which is: Doublejump immediately, while moving down and at an angle in his jump, airdodge, which will land you. If landing out of a wavedash conserves momentum, this will serve as an interesting substitute.

thats basically what ive been doing, relying more heavily on his short-hop game(and extensive use of PK fire). The new wavedash idea is interesting though, and could turn out good in Ness' favor in the far future(like a month or so when i actually get my hands on it).

[AsbestosBlatant]

On one of the custom stage vids BDCool uploaded, it looked like Ness' nair is his N64 nair again.
I'll recheck it in a second here and take a screenshot. It looks way too planted and effective to be his being hit animation, but we'll see.


Also: Neat to see somebody else has my wavedash idea.

[bylim5]

Sakurai, you *******

[maskeXD]

Risings rock!!

A rising fair to dair... that'd be awesome.

[Levitas]

Maske, it'd be even cooler if it were a rising fair pulling them off the side of the stage to dair.

[maskeXD]

Or even rising PK Fires.

J Man, that'd be a killer combo, could do 0% characters.

XD

[mooseproduce]

That's retarded. What possible benefit is there to removing DJC? Taking out wavedashing I get, because it applies to all characters (and makes them all play similarly, in a sense, unless they are Aniki), but DJC actually differentiates certain characters. By taking it out, Ness is now just another Smash character. :P

I don't play Melee, but certainly in Smash 64 Ness is defined by his DJC.

[tux_do]

I don't even know what double jump canceling is, so It doesn't matter to me

[NESSBOUNDER]

Quick, someone with the game, try and figure out some tricks using this new rising property to their advantage!

Rising PK fire sounds sick! And we all know how Ness's jump loops...it should make edgeguarding with PK fire a lot more fun.

[maskeXD]

Rising PK fire sounds sick! And we all know how Ness's jump loops...it should make edgeguarding with PK fire a lot more fun.

Exactally.

[Ademisk]

...can...you....Rising...PK FIRE? 0_0

[Levitas]

Someone test it quick, because bmoves may cause the double jump to cancel like pk thunder does.

[Ademisk]

PK Thunder does? Simna will be sad

[Simna ibn Sind]

did u guys see the thing i posted? http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141952

Also: how does thus sound:

jump, double jump, uair at beginning of double jump, pk fire at end of double jump, pkthunder2/pkflash while they are caught in the fire

[Dekar]

dude... thats the lamest **** ive ever heard

[Simna ibn Sind]

^_^_^_^ i think it would blow anyone's mind if it was pulled off

[Dekar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdF2m7x_ivw 1:17 thats definately a djc?

[Simna ibn Sind]

interesting....it could be something else....like other than a double jump there...like lag or something

but it could also be a djc

[Levitas]

@ dekar: No. we were speculating that it was. In fact, I'll take that comment out of the video thread now.

Simna, that's gonna be funny if it works, because even if they're not trapped the whole time in the pillar, they'll still be restricted in motion, so it may set up.

[NESSBOUNDER]

^_^_^_^ i think it would blow anyone's mind if it was pulled off

I think you should be focusing on LUCAS'S PK Thunder, Simna...you know, the fact that it goes through opponents could lead up to all sorts of PKthunder2 nastiness.

[Ademisk]

Ness's is already beastly enough now that everyone is floaty and it's Faster/has a longer tail. Does anyone know if Ness gets super armor with it?

[NESSBOUNDER]

Ness's is already beastly enough now that everyone is floaty and it's Faster/has a longer tail. Does anyone know if Ness gets super armor with it?

No, I don't think Ness is heavy enough to get super armor on this attack. The only move out of Ness/Lucas I could ever see having Super armor would be Luca's up smash.

[Ademisk]

Doesn't Lucas's recovery get Super Armor? I heard that he did.

[NESSBOUNDER]

Doesn't Lucas's recovery get Super Armor? I heard that he did.

Lol, thanks to the fact that PK thunder goes right through your opponent, it's almost impossible to hit him out of this move in the first place, so even if it did have super armor it wouldn't make any difference.

[Simna ibn Sind]

in an SSE vid Lucas fights porky boss and hit himself with pk thunder and the boss is shooting all kinds of **** at him and it hurts him, but doesnt cause stun

[NESSBOUNDER]

Wow, if this is true, then Lucas really has no problems when it comes to recovery.

Except for the fact that PK thunder has kind of low priority and can be canceled by almost any aerial attack.

Despite that though, it moves at such a tight angle that it'll be hard to interrupt it anyway.

Ness probably has nothing to worry about either, since the tail of his PK thunder is so huge and it moves so fast that any opponent trying to jump in from above will get zapped before they hit the head.

Oh, and I just realised it...Ness can jump towards the opponent, double jump, shoot PK fire downwards and then in the same movement LOOP UPWARDS AND BACKWARDS to avoid being punished.

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of no DJC XD

[maskeXD]

I think crazy things will come out of DJCless Ness.

[Dekar]

@ dekar: No. we were speculating that it was. In fact, I'll take that comment out of the video thread now.

Lol no, i ment that definately looks like a DJC to me... and i know my djcs /ok

[Levitas]

Yeah, I didn't mean to discredit your opinion, and I certainly didn't mean any disrespect, but an overwhelming load of reliable sources said he can't.

In fact when I first saw it, I believed it to be a DJC, too. However, it's possible the audio was distorted, and the first spark sounded like the jump, and then the second-last were delayed a bit.

All I know is that it probably wasn't a DJC, and trust me, I know djcs too.
EDIT:
Vid proof: http://www.gamespot.com/video/928518/6185536/videoplayerpop?

[Dekar]

just like they all said ness wasnt gonna be in brawl right?

im just gonna sit in my own fantasy world where every demo ive seen of Ness in brawl was done by someone much worse than me at controlling him *plugs his ears*

[Phelix08]

That's retarded. What possible benefit is there to removing DJC? Taking out wavedashing I get, because it applies to all characters (and makes them all play similarly, in a sense, unless they are Aniki), but DJC actually differentiates certain characters. By taking it out, Ness is now just another Smash character. :P

I don't play Melee, but certainly in Smash 64 Ness is defined by his DJC.

Just a speculation, but it's because they're using a new physics system. As in, it was an odd occurrence in the first one, and in Melee, they left it in because they didn't feel it did any harm, but in Brawl, it wasn't there to begin with, and they didn't think it was important enough to program in. Or Sakuri could just hate us.