Unofficial "Marth is going to get NERFED!" Thread

[No-Really-I-Suck]

I cannot possibly see Marth being the maniacal beast he was in Melee. I guarantee that they are going to nerf the ever living crap out of him.

The Nerf List:
-Reduced Grab Range
-Less Knock Back
-More Lag between aerial attacks
-GREATLY reduced tip
-Less Floaty

Who else thinks Marth will get cut down to size?

[Statuskuo]

i think his up tilt only covers the front of him now. he kind of just raises his sword to head level.

[Chaosblade77]

I agree, but only in a relative sense.

Reduced Grab Range - Yes, very likely.

Less Knock Back - On tippers, yes.

More Lag between aerial attacks - No, only because all aerials have less lag (compared to melee). Proportionally, he will probably not change as much as other veterans in this aspect, but they are getting faster/less lag.

GREATLY reduced tip - as above, yes. Probably slightly less damage and quite a bit less knockback.

Less Floaty - Everyone is more floaty in Brawl, so like the aerial lag, he probably just won't change as much as other characters that are becoming more floaty.

That is just based off what I have read in the impressions/seen in videos. But yes, some nerfs no doubt (specifically tippers and grabs)

[Shark X]

Reduced grab range? He already has a pretty small grab range. It's Roy that can grab you from the other side of the battle field.

[Ced The Lad]

You guys pretty much covered it. As a Marth main, I'm saddened, but the show must go on.

Seems like the only thing they buffed was the speed of his attacks.

[Irow]

Well I can pretty much guarantee you that there will be less lag, not more, between his aerial attacks. I wouldn't be surprised if Marth's Short Hop Double Fair will be in.

Marth's Shield Breaker attack is akin to his actual stabbing swordplay in Fire Emblem. I'll use this move often, it's quite quick and seems to be powerful. His Dancing Blade seems to be buffed as well. And if I'm not mistaken, his Dolphin Slash is quicker to start up and has less lag. Counter comes out better as well.

His Smashes are amazingly fast, quite possibly one of the fastest set's of Smash attacks - If not the fastest. His tilts still seem useful, his down tilt probably works the same as it did before. Up tilt is still the same as it was in Melee, don't be tricked by the beginning of the SSE Marth section. What you are mistaking for his Up tilt is in fact his neutral A jab.

[MookieRah]

Guys... I doubt they would nerf him too much. Think about what makes Marth top tier. Thiiiiink about it. It's edgeguarding. Edgeguarding will be way way harder this time around, so it's doubtful that his move set will undergo much negative changes seeing as how the game nerfed marth already.

[JesiahTEG]

I don't see what you're saying lol. Explain it further?

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Well we know Shield Breaker got changed (now a thrust instead of a vertical swing). Would that affect his edgeguarding ability at all? Of course even if it does he's probably still got the Down + A hax to poke them to oblivion.

And he got a knockback nerf? I expected as much, they honestly needed to nerf his power even if he didn't get the speed buff, tippers were madness. :laugh:

[Staco]

his smashdistanc is scarry
hes got more hitbox Oo

[Repryx]

I cannot possibly see Marth being the maniacal beast he was in Melee. I guarantee that they are going to nerf the ever living crap out of him.

The Nerf List:
-Reduced Grab Range
-Less Knock Back
-More Lag between aerial attacks
-GREATLY reduced tip
-Less Floaty

Who else thinks Marth will get cut down to size?

THESE ARE BALANCES lolz besides Marth looks alot faster

[Dark Sonic]

I don't see what you're saying lol. Explain it further?

I already explained this to a few of my friends. The change in game mechanics already sort of nerfs Marth. The auto sweetspot feature means that Marth won't be as much of an on stage edgeguarding beast as he was in melee. Characters being able to airdodge and then up B means that Marth's off stage edgeguarding is moot as well, as he has to be relatively close to the stage to use it, and it's likely that if the opponent dodges he still can easily make it back to the stage. Marth's primary method of killing (edgeguarding) is pretty much gone. Marth's f-smash was not feared because it was powerful, it was feared because it was enough to get the opponent off the stage even at low percents, which set up perfectly for Marth to edgeguard. Now they'll simply get back on the stage, and with good DI and abusing the airdodging system, I'll be quite a while before he kills them. So even before we've touched Marth's moveset at all, he's already been nerfed. I just think that he doesn't need any further nerfing, because this nerf is quite a blow to Marth's playstyle. And with characters like Metaknight and the newly buffed Peach around (that's right, Sakurai buffed the 5th best character in the game) Marth could actually use a buff or two (like a second kill move). And although it's a bit early to tell, based of the SSE videos I'd say Marth really hasn't changed that much. His dash attack and d-tilt had less range, and his utilt didn't hit behind him as much, but there were no other negative changes to his speed or range. I can't base his strength off of the video, but it'd be perfectly fair for Marth's power to stay about the same, because that powerful F-smash will likely become his ONLY killing move, and even then it's not exactly the safest killer (like Falcon's Knee, or Shiek's fair.) I'm hoping his shield breaker is strong enough uncharged to be a killer, since I noticed it also seems to hit a little further in front of him than its melee counter part.

[Black Waltz]

marth looks somewhat slowing in terms of running speed but his attacks seem to come out faster.

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I already explained this to a few of my friends. The change in game mechanics already sort of nerfs Marth. The auto sweetspot feature means that Marth won't be as much of an on stage edgeguarding beast as he was in melee. Characters being able to airdodge and then up B means that Marth's off stage edgeguarding is moot as well, as he has to be relatively close to the stage to use it, and it's likely that if the opponent dodges he still can easily make it back to the stage. Marth's primary method of killing (edgeguarding) is pretty much gone. Marth's f-smash was not feared because it was powerful, it was feared because it was enough to get the opponent off the stage even at low percents, which set up perfectly for Marth to edgeguard. Now they'll simply get back on the stage, and with good DI and abusing the airdodging system, I'll be quite a while before he kills them. So even before we've touched Marth's moveset at all, he's already been nerfed. I just think that he doesn't need any further nerfing, because this nerf is quite a blow to Marth's playstyle. And with characters like Metaknight and the newly buffed Peach around (that's right, Sakurai buffed the 5th best character in the game) Marth could actually use a buff or two (like a second kill move). And although it's a bit early to tell, based of the SSE videos I'd say Marth really hasn't changed that much. His dash attack and d-tilt had less range, and his utilt didn't hit behind him as much, but there were no other negative changes to his speed or range. I can't base his strength off of the video, but it'd be perfectly fair for Marth's power to stay about the same, because that powerful F-smash will likely become his ONLY killing move, and even then it's not exactly the safest killer (like Falcon's Knee, or Shiek's fair.) I'm hoping his shield breaker is strong enough uncharged to be a killer, since I noticed it also seems to hit a little further in front of him than its melee counter part.

I agree. Unfortunately, Sakurai seems to have an eye for nerfing and buffing the wrong people/characters.

[Corax]

I'm saddened from the look of his bair.
The slow run speed can be used to an advantage though, now we don't have to wait 14 frames to do a foxtrot - DC. At least, it looks like it ends early in the SSE videos. XD Its a guess anyway.

[JesiahTEG]

Thanks Sonic Wave. A random question about nerfing, since I don't know that much really...When Sakurai nerfs a character, does he do it on purpose? I mean, isn't it possible that he completely ignores how good each character is, and just creates the game? Then the final result ends up having certain characters be better than others just because of how the game was naturally developed? It's a hard question to understand, so sorry if it's worded weird lol.

[Dark Sonic]

Well, when he said that characters may play differently this time around, I assume he meant nerfs and buffs in addition to the new game mechanics. For instance, Fox's up smash was obviously nerfed, because even though everyone is generally floatier, it still doesn't kill them at the same percent that it used to. That means it's actually much, much less powerful.

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Well, when he said that characters may play differently this time around, I assume he meant nerfs and buffs in addition to the new game mechanics. For instance, Fox's up smash was obviously nerfed, because even though everyone is generally floatier, it still doesn't kill them at the same percent that it used to. That means it's actually much, much less powerful.

The problem is when developers just don't have the right touch for nerfs and buffs. The developement team (I doubt Sakurai does everything) also nerfed Fox' uair in terms of power, so now Fox has lost a great deal of his vertical killing power, which was pretty much his main way of killing. Add to that the fact that shine spiking is nerfed by the new game mechanics, and fox has a much harder time killing people.

[super-7]

he looks awesome i cant wait to play him again he is nerfed but his sword looks longer he will probably have alot less knock back though

[Bassoonist]

I wish he didn't have to be nerfed. :(

He belongs at the top. It's fun to beat people with him.:laugh:

[Dark Sonic]

Well, that's just the thing. Even if the development team doesn't nerf Marth, the game mechanics have already nerfed him. He will not live up to his melee glory unless he is buffed, so I really think they should just leave him as is to balance things out. If they leave him as is I could easily see him being mid to upper-mid tier.

@ Witchking of Angmar - that's another good point. Although things become even more complicated when the developmental team doesn't really know who to nerf or buff either. Fox was pretty obvious for nerfing, but like you said they really overdid it. However, for some unfathomable reason, they buffed Peach. I suspect that they are making buffs and nerfs based on the casual player's opinions, and not tourny goers. This is supported by the fact that they made Link's up B worse (which n00bs think was broken), and nerfing Peach's downsmash while buffing her aerials. If they are indead going based off of casual opinions then I can confidently say that Marth will have very little direct nerfing from his melee self. That's because the casual opinion is that Marth was weaker than Roy, and they really only complained about his range. From the looks of it, Marth's range wasn't nerfed too badly and from their perspective nothing else was really overpowered. I hope this arguement holds true, because if that's the case, Marth may well still be competative.

[Omega_Star]

If they are indead going based off of casual opinions then I can confidently say that Marth will have very little direct nerfing from his melee self. That's because the casual opinion is that Marth was weaker than Roy, and they really only complained about his range. From the looks of it, Marth's range wasn't nerfed too badly and from their perspective nothing else was really overpowered. I hope this arguement holds true, because if that's the case, Marth may well still be competative.That's a good point; Roy does have teh fire, after all... well, he did, anyway.

And meh, I've always preferred killing people with spike/tip combos rather than gimpy edgeguards anyway.

I think that Marth will remain playable competitively in any case.

[True Fool]

It looks like his U-smash is much easier to hit with. Might be stronger too, couldn't quite tell.

[_Doorman_]

I can't believe there are people actually complaining that the most broken character in the game got nerfed. Good Riddance to his ridiculous fair,and hello to a level playing field.

[rubiksfriend]

I already explained this to a few of my friends. The change in game mechanics already sort of nerfs Marth. The auto sweetspot feature means that Marth won't be as much of an on stage edgeguarding beast as he was in melee. Characters being able to airdodge and then up B means that Marth's off stage edgeguarding is moot as well, as he has to be relatively close to the stage to use it, and it's likely that if the opponent dodges he still can easily make it back to the stage. Marth's primary method of killing (edgeguarding) is pretty much gone. Marth's f-smash was not feared because it was powerful, it was feared because it was enough to get the opponent off the stage even at low percents, which set up perfectly for Marth to edgeguard. Now they'll simply get back on the stage, and with good DI and abusing the airdodging system, I'll be quite a while before he kills them. So even before we've touched Marth's moveset at all, he's already been nerfed. I just think that he doesn't need any further nerfing, because this nerf is quite a blow to Marth's playstyle. And with characters like Metaknight and the newly buffed Peach around (that's right, Sakurai buffed the 5th best character in the game) Marth could actually use a buff or two (like a second kill move). And although it's a bit early to tell, based of the SSE videos I'd say Marth really hasn't changed that much. His dash attack and d-tilt had less range, and his utilt didn't hit behind him as much, but there were no other negative changes to his speed or range. I can't base his strength off of the video, but it'd be perfectly fair for Marth's power to stay about the same, because that powerful F-smash will likely become his ONLY killing move, and even then it's not exactly the safest killer (like Falcon's Knee, or Shiek's fair.) I'm hoping his shield breaker is strong enough uncharged to be a killer, since I noticed it also seems to hit a little further in front of him than its melee counter part.

Why would Sakurai implement auto-sweetspotting? Whom does that help?

[Hydde]

well autosweespotting is already implemented. it helps everyone, even marth, to sweetspot the ledge with ease.

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Why would Sakurai implement auto-sweetspotting? Whom does that help?

Noobs. Apparently casuals don't know the distance of their up+b's. So now the ledge is just auto tracked for their scrubbish convenience.

[rubiksfriend]

It helps those recovering, but not those trying to edge-guard, which is what Marth does best.

[Dark Sonic]

^^Exactly. Which is why Marth is no longer broken. Now we just want to know if he'll still be competative.

[Kazuya]

I think he looks slightly slower than he was in Melee. What I loved about Marth was he had great speed and could pull off attacks very fast - hense why I switched to Marth from Falcon when Melee came out, Falcon was strong anf fast but his moves were sluggish... Whilst Marth was just pretty much PERFECT for me....

I dunno, I can see myself trying very hard with him this time round, but I know he'll get nerfed like a ***** this time round. So I might go Pit & Snake from now on

[Charlesz]

tipper will be nerfed but at least he's faster, you never know.

[Superninjabreadman]

Meh. he dosent seem to fly as far. but atleast we didnt get it as bad as fox, right? everything is diffrent in Brawl anyway.

The Tip is gonna be the one I miss the most. Less Floaty means Less Knockback. and im down with that. (I'll get used to it. it might cripple my Air game for a while.)

[Marthgreil]

I cannot possibly see Marth being the maniacal beast he was in Melee. I guarantee that they are going to nerf the ever living crap out of him.

The Nerf List:
-Reduced Grab Range
-Less Knock Back
-More Lag between aerial attacks
-GREATLY reduced tip
-Less Floaty

Who else thinks Marth will get cut down to size?

To lose grab range you actully hve to have it.

[Darkfur]

To lose grab range you actully hve to have it.

Marth practically has an invisible hookshot/grapple beam in Melee. <_< What are you talking about?

[rubiksfriend]

I'm gonna miss his grab range, priority, shield-breaker, tippers and edgeguarding. Why auto-sweetspot? Why? I don't give a s**t about the scrubs or "new players".

[Ban Heim]

I can't believe there are people actually complaining that the most broken character in the game got nerfed. Good Riddance to his ridiculous fair,and hello to a level playing field.

The only thing I'm sad about is his nerfed recovery. Everything else seems okay, but I don't see why his recovery was nerfed. Falcon/Ganondorf deserve a recovery nerf more than any character. It'd have been fine if that's all they did, but after nerfing his tipper, range, and running speed, nerfing his recovery as well seems a bit much.

I have no doubt that he'll still be a good character and I'll still play him often, but he just won't seem as fun anymore.

To lose grab range you actully hve to have it.

Marth has the most broken grab in the game. Why the hell do people think he has a ****ty grab?

Watch this video at around 2:18 and tell me what you see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6VG3P6wgDs

[ComboTurtle]

how did his recovery get nerfed? and everyone seems to run a bit slower in brawl, he seems to have also maintained his attack speed i dont think he will be terrible.

[True Fool]

Auto-sweet spot, in my opinion, is pretty much what makes up for the removal of wavedashing for edgehogging. So I don't think it'll trash all edge-guarding, because it comes with that nice edgehog.

[Dark Sonic]

But you could already edgehog in melee. We didn't actually gain any edgeguarding options. We just replace wavedash-edgehog with the edgesnap, and then lost all the other edgeguarding options.

[Ban Heim]

how did his recovery get nerfed? and everyone seems to run a bit slower in brawl, he seems to have also maintained his attack speed i dont think he will be terrible.

He can only use his side-B once to gain horizontal distance and can't use it at all if he's already double jumped.