Whobby 2008: Ike's Speed

[Hallowed Storm]

In the current Whobby 2008 event happening in Japan, has anything happened with Ike's speed? If you hear that he has become faster, has less lag, or anything such as that, please post it here.

[pyroroth]

Let us hope!

[Maben]

"Ike is certainly a heavy"

That's about all I've seen so far from teh Japanese.

[Rakath]

The "Noob Killer" is getting some good praise and the good kind of chiding ('Too powerful' is a wonderful insult ta get). So I see good things in the future.

[Maben]

Info from BrawlCentral, translated from Japanese players at the event. Not all related to speed, but here's some Ike comments:

-Ike Victory Pose: "I only fight for those I protect" (May be off due to translation issues)
-Ike Impressions: Eruption has a lot of range and can be used in the air. His Final Smash has more range if you "charge it up"?
-Ike is being called a noob killer. His Side Special charged can KO Kirby and Meta Knight at 35%. He is being called "too powerful".

[GenG]

I got this from neogaf forums. It's a translation from Japanese:

Ike is definitely a heavy character
His come back move is side+b only you land on your back when using it (??)
Holding side and b will allow you to move a lot more(faster maybe?)
High attack power, sends enemies flying pretty easily, attacks are a little slow, long reach.
Opponents were MetaKnight and Wario, had faught them without any issue (i assume hes referring to balance)
When being ganged up on, seems like it's tough to do a downwards air strike seems like your armor goes up if you are in the air
Couldn't execute his trump card (final smash??)
No loading?
He got first place

[OnyxVulpine]

Hmm some hard to interpret things. But "Holding side and b will allow you to move a lot more" sounds like he either moves farther, or harder..

-Onyx

[Gaddswell]

Here is what ITP had to say:



Character impressions:

Ike:

Very Very Very Very slow, but much more powerfull than everyone, he kills at 90-100 when others kill in the 150s

Neutral B works the same as marth and roy, but more powerfull and the animation is diffrent.

His aerials come out very slowly, you'll have to start them very early to hit.

his up B is very fast, but it's crap as a recovery move, cause it's not that high, and barely movers horizontially. If you hit with it it'll drag your opponent down with you.

his smashes and Tilts are freakishly powerfull.

his Forward B is a fast forward moving move, much like fox. and it's a great help in recovering.


Thanks for answering these questions ITP. If you don't mind, could you please answer these Ike questions?

1. When playing as Ike, did you feel as though he suffered from invisible lag (as in, did he lag before he started his start up animations)?
2. What are Ike's fastest moves?

1.no, all of his lag derived from actual animations, but the power was worth it. he's a monster.

2.I'd say all of his B moves basically, and maybe his Bair? I don't remember it much. the Fair is horrible though(in terms of speed), starts out slower than peach's!

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Looks like the rumor is false. Sorry Ike fans, atleast he's still a beast.

[Hallowed Storm]

Holding side and b will allow you to move a lot more(faster maybe?)

I think that they are referring to charging that attack up. "Moving a lot more" could be faster, or farther.

[Rakath]

Looks like the rumor is false. Sorry Ike fans, atleast he's still a beast.

At least the invisible lag thing is done and buried as a glitch in the old demo. And if he's Ganon speed with a Marth range, its just inconvienent instead of outright bad.

[Torchik]

I'm actually really good at timing Bowser's smashes, so slow attacks should be no problem for me. It's his walking and running speed I'm worried about...>_> For some reason I play much better with characters that can run fast.

[AlphaDragoon2002]

So the speed buff was false...but no more invisi-lag? That still puts Ike as much better than he was at E for All, great news.

And it looks like his recovery doesn't totally suck anymore if people are saying the Side B works well. Also...35% on Kirby/MK with the Side B?! Geez. I'm a happy guy, overall.

[VEGA_224]

~Regardless of speed, any character, given enough play time and dedication, can and WILL become a formidable opponent. If you want it enough, then you shall make Ike a great character. I fully intend to learn every in and out and every flaw and every bit of timing on his techniques in order to enjoy playing as him!

~My thought on slow characters: understand their lag, both starting and ending, inside and out.

[Kirby knight]

So the speed buff was false...but no more invisi-lag? That still puts Ike as much better than he was at E for All, great news.

And it looks like his recovery doesn't totally suck anymore if people are saying the Side B works well. Also...35% on Kirby/MK with the Side B?! Geez. I'm a happy guy, overall.

I haven't really been keeping up with the main thread where this info came from but doesn't Ike's Side B require him to charge it to become more powerful?

I'm actually really good at timing Bowser's smashes, so slow attacks should be no problem for me. It's his walking and running speed I'm worried about...>_> For some reason I play much better with characters that can run fast.

I was under the impression that Ike's walking/running speed was pretty good. The main problem was how slow and laggy his moves were. Also I'm not surprised Ike is getting positive feedback because the majority of matches taking place at the event are FFA's, which is going to work towards Ike's advantage because people aren't paying attention to him the entire time with everything going on.

-Knight

[MysticKenji]

his up B is very fast, but it's crap as a recovery move, cause it's not that high, and barely movers horizontially. If you hit with it it'll drag your opponent down with you.
Ikecides ?

[fire_wulf]

If you suicide in this matter and drag an opponent with you... will they die first like with Kirby's suicide throws?

If that is so.. i am doing this just to make my friend made.. cuz it would be funny

[Windlord]

plus suicide spikes will be nice if you have a stock advantage.

hmm well even if he didn't get a speed buff I think it's justified in his power. Brute strength ftw!

[pyroroth]

plus suicide spikes will be nice if you have a stock advantage.

hmm well even if he didn't get a speed buff I think it's justified in his power. Brute strength ftw!

brute strength is not ftw.. look at melee bowser...

[AlphaDragoon2002]

plus suicide spikes will be nice if you have a stock advantage.

hmm well even if he didn't get a speed buff I think it's justified in his power. Brute strength ftw!

Well, he kinda did get a speed buff. No more invisi-lag = faster attacks.

I.T.P. is also reporting that Eruption has a larger range than it did previously and comes out very fast.

[Windlord]

brute strength is not ftw.. look at melee bowser...

look at Gimpyfish.

besides I'm not a tourney player, I play free for all with my buds, so in my world brute strength ftw.

[Gill]

look at Gimpyfish.

Name another.

Now list people who use Fox, Falco, or Marth.

[Layupfreak]

i have no idea, but i hope there was a buff from e4all

[FieryRebirth]

i have no idea, but i hope there was a buff from e4all

Do you mean after E4All? People found out how slow and disappointing overall Ike was there, the 'buff' obviously took place in Japanese gaming events.

[Windlord]

Name another.

Now list people who use Fox, Falco, or Marth.

my bro's actually getting pretty decent with bowser... but thats not the point the point is heavy chracters=pwnage in the right hands. thats how I think Ike will be, he won't be a band wagon character like Marth, Fox or in brawls case Sonic and Metaknight, that are easy to use cus they are fast.

fast characters are no fun.

[fire_wulf]

Brawl is a different game... its not all about speed anymore... Idk what it is about now... but we have to wait and see

[Hellbeing]

Ike For The Win!!!!!!!!!!

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

In Melee, Bowser wasn't strong enough to make up for the lack of speed, but Ike makes Bowser look like a featherweight when it comes to strength/power, so maybe he has SO MUCH strength that it just completely destroys the need for speed. Yes, I believe there is a point where that can happen, especially with Super Armor now running rampant. So we'll just have to see if he reaches it.

[Thi0s]

In Melee, Bowser wasn't strong enough to make up for the lack of speed, but Ike makes Bowser look like a featherweight when it comes to strength/power, so maybe he has SO MUCH strength that it just completely destroys the need for speed. Yes, I believe there is a point where that can happen, especially with Super Armor now running rampant. So we'll just have to see if he reaches it.

That is exactly what I feel Ike is. He is just so monstrously powerful that carelessly running at him would be suicide. I just wish Sakurai based him more on his actual Fire Emblem counterpart, where he was strong and fast.

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

That is exactly what I feel Ike is. He is just so monstrously powerful that carelessly running at him would be suicide. I just wish Sakurai based him more on his actual Fire Emblem counterpart, where he was strong and fast.

Speed or Power, one or the other, you can't have both or Ike would be broken. And Ike definitely feels morel like a power-based unit than speed, even though he had both in his games.

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Just to inform you people using Gimpyfish as an alibi, Gimpyfish doesn't win tournaments with Bowser. He uses Bowser because that's his favorite videogame character in general, not for the sake of winning or being unique. Because Bowser is slow doesn't that their character potentials are absolute.

[Windlord]

Just to inform you people using Gimpyfish as an alibi, Gimpyfish doesn't win tournaments with Bowser. He uses Bowser because that's his favorite videogame character in general, not for the sake of winning or being unique. Because Bowser is slow doesn't that their character potentials are absolute.

Ike is my favorite character. He always has been (since I played PoR) THAT is why I use him. When I said look at gimpyfish I never said he won tournaments, I was simply implying that he is good with a slow character. I don't really give a crap about winning tourmaents, I don't even go to them. I play smash for fun. and the word "absolute" really can't apply to character effectivness.

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Ike is my favorite character. He always has been (since I played PoR) THAT is why I use him. When I said look at gimpyfish I never said he won tournaments, I was simply implying that he is good with a slow character. I don't really give a crap about winning tourmaents, I don't even go to them. I play smash for fun. and the word "absolute" really can't apply to character effectivness.

Why can't the word absolute be used? I'm simply saying that a characters potential isn't guaranteed to be as effective as another character because they share small similarities. That wasn't directed towards just you, it was towards everyone who has used this excuse before.

[True Fool]

Speed or Power, one or the other, you can't have both or Ike would be broken. And Ike definitely feels morel like a power-based unit than speed, even though he had both in his games.

FOX! Fawwwwwwwwks!!! Captain Falcon! FALCO!

If one out of three fast+strong characters is on mid-tier, not top, not high, then speed+power can work without being unbalanced. You make them have a poor recovery(which Ike already has, not to mention that Fox had a great one), and/or easily comboed/KOed.

[Windlord]

Why can't the word absolute be used?

Because, for every attack there is a counter attack. Who wins is based on who plays the smartest, not whoever uses the "better" character. In other words there is no absolute style, or no absolute winner everything is subject to change depending on circumstances and personal choices.

That wasn't directed towards just you, it was towards everyone who has used this excuse before.

oh ok... sorry I took it personally, my bad.:ohwell:

but yeah... I wasn't saying because bowser can be played well anyone that tries hard enough can do well with Ike. I'm just saying people say negative stuff about bowser all the time but he's been proven to be a decent character if used correctly. I think that goes for all characters. Some are just easier to get the hang of than others.

[OnyxVulpine]

I'm not expert at Smash so I can't say for sure. But is he really that slow from when you watch videos? I can't tell, he looks decently fast to me.

-Onyx

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Because, for every attack there is a counter attack. Who wins is based on who plays the smartest, not whoever uses the "better" character. In other words there is no absolute style, or no absolute winner everything is subject to change depending on circumstances and personal choices.



oh ok... sorry I took it personally, my bad.:ohwell:

but yeah... I wasn't saying because bowser can be played well anyone that tries hard enough can do well with Ike. I'm just saying people say negative stuff about bowser all the time but he's been proven to be a decent character if used correctly. I think that goes for all characters. Some are just easier to get the hang of than others.


Ok, but one thing. The character you play with really does matter. Which is the essence of tiers.

[Hostility]

That is exactly what I feel Ike is. He is just so monstrously powerful that carelessly running at him would be suicide. I just wish Sakurai based him more on his actual Fire Emblem counterpart, where he was strong and fast.



Then he would just be marth. We don't need another retardedly broken character with power, speed, and range.

[Windlord]

Ok, but one thing. The character you play with really does matter. Which is the essence of tiers.

Ah well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one then... cus I don't believe in tiers. I think all the characters were designed for the most part balanced with one another. No character purely beats another outright, it's the gamer controlling it that decides the outcome.

I do think some characters are better suited (or easier to use)for different styles though, as far as being better in free 4 all or 1 on 1, but I think that any character can be good in both situations, the gamer just has to find out how.

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Not trying to de-rail but I'll say this about tiers:

- Tiers do exist. That's just how the development of fighting games works. But it doesn't mean "lolz this character owns this character and the low tier guys can never win tournaments."

- How tiering works is basically this: If a person was theoretically fighting himself and was equally skilled with character A (upper tier) and character B (mid tier), the person would have a better chance of winning with character A. Not an absolute, but simply increased odds.


So the character does play into it, but so does the skill of the player.