Peach's New Up B - A curse and a blessing?

[Yuna]

Who here's kinda ambivalent over her new Up B? As we all know, once you've Up B:ed, Peach falls slow as hell. Fastfalling is only marginally faster than falling normally after Up B in Melee.

However, the umbrella extends much further away from her body now, making it much easier to, you know, not get owned on recovery by a swordsman standing by the edge. And I just watched some vids and wow, they practically doubled the vertical range!

Edit: And, oh, yes, the 2nd jump nerfed. What the hell were they thinking?!

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

Well thats payback for having a dsmash that can dole out 80 some damage.

[Penguyen]

Don't forget the 2nd jump; the height is just appalling... Well other than that i agree that the new parasol has its fair share of pros and cons. I dont think i'll be able to steal edges with that 'cutting effect' since the parasol is so high up now.

[Yuna]

Well thats payback for having a dsmash that can dole out 80 some damage.
1) It can no longer give out 80% of damage. 30-35% I think if you CC the whole thing.
2) The game has much more freeze frames now, so it's much harder to accidentally CC the whole thing.
3) The move now has 0 range. The range is Peach's feet.
4) The move doesn't KO you at 300%.

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

1) It can no longer give out 80% of damage. 30-35% I think if you CC the whole thing.
2) The game has much more freeze frames now, so it's much harder to accidentally CC the whole thing.
3) The move now has 0 range. The range is Peach's feet.
4) The move doesn't KO you at 300%.

Thank you for enlightening me but you know i was talking about melee right? Thanks, that range was ridiculous. The nerfing was neccessary.

[Penguyen]

1) It can no longer give out 80% of damage. 30-35% I think if you CC the whole thing.
2) The game has much more freeze frames now, so it's much harder to accidentally CC the whole thing.
3) The move now has 0 range. The range is Peach's feet.
4) The move doesn't KO you at 300%.

Oh god don't tell me the range is that bad now! Sigh.. it didn't look like that in the videos.

[PRINCESS PEACH777]

i know i saw it to very slow but i have a feeling that it's better;)

[RedMage8BT]

Peach needed some nerfs. From what I hear, she'd definitely be top tier without the nerfs.

[RyokoYaksa]

2) The game has much more freeze frames now, so it's much harder to accidentally CC the whole thing.
3) The move now has 0 range. The range is Peach's feet.

1. Exaggeration. The move has less hitlag than it did in Melee, presumably because it deals less damage. Your whole tirade on the hitlag in this game, like I said before, is akin to the threat of the sky falling.
2. Gross exaggeration. If the range was reduced, it certainly wasn't that far.

[Rockin]

I think it's a bit of column A and B. I think they tried to make her Up B a bit more fair, which I thought it was already fair.

Kirby Kid, though, didn't think so. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=114891

In any case, we need to use Peach the best that we can.

[Superninjabreadman]

as long as she can still float Peach = One of the best recoveries. Now that we have flyin peeps.

If theres turnips with funny faces. I'll be happy. I hope they're harder to catch.

[EpicProportions]

If theres turnips with funny faces. I'll be happy. I hope they're harder to catch.

i think the turnips are bigger now, so that would presumably mean their are easier to catch.

[RedMage8BT]

Items are easier to catch in general in Brawl, which will probably lead to me using less turnips. I guess the Side-B will replace it as my staple B move.

[iron blade]

peach's parasol hits harder now and her peach bomber looks stronger and easier to combo.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/131782.html

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

1. The D-smash has been nerfed, but not in such a wa that it's rendered insignificant to her playing style.

2. Peach was not nerfed, her abilities simply went through a transition of sorts. Here F-throw has recieved a major bff by giving it horizontal knock back that is very hard to DI. Her dash attack has two hits that knock the opponent just above you. Her genral playing style has been talored to where she can combo. How the hell was Peach able to combo in Melee anyway?

Peach may have had her D-smash nerfed, but she has gained several ore abilities in the process.

[iron blade]

Here F-throw has recieved a major bff by giving it horizontal knock back that is very hard to DI..

and i thought her f throw was decently strong in melee. excellent.

[Sundown]

Her fsmash got buffed too, and her nair still rapes like crazy.

Peach will be higher in tiers in Brawl than she was in Melee, i call it.

[Yuna]

1. Exaggeration. The move has less hitlag than it did in Melee, presumably because it deals less damage. Your whole tirade on the hitlag in this game, like I said before, is akin to the threat of the sky falling.
2. Gross exaggeration. If the range was reduced, it certainly wasn't that far.
1) You doubt the game has noticable more freeze frames than Melee (or, well, any fighting game in fighting game history since the advent of the later Super NES games)? Even jabs have noticable freeze frames now.
2) How greatly was it reduced?

as long as she can still float Peach = One of the best recoveries. Now that we have flyin peeps.

If theres turnips with funny faces. I'll be happy. I hope they're harder to catch.
1) Bigger turnips
2) Items are generally easier to catch in the air now.
3) You can even catch them in the middle of aerials.
Equals = Turnips are easier to counter. Heck, Marth could even nair a turnip and then catch it halfway through the move (of course, this works to our advantage if we aren't hit by the nair).

1. The D-smash has been nerfed, but not in such a wa that it's rendered insignificant to her playing style.

2. Peach was not nerfed, her abilities simply went through a transition of sorts. Here F-throw has recieved a major bff by giving it horizontal knock back that is very hard to DI. Her dash attack has two hits that knock the opponent just above you. Her genral playing style has been talored to where she can combo. How the hell was Peach able to combo in Melee anyway?

Peach may have had her D-smash nerfed, but she has gained several ore abilities in the process.
This is not a threat complaining about the possible nerfing of Peach. I have never claimed that Peach has been nerfed in general. In fact, I find it funny how they buffed pretty much everything she had except Dsmash and have no doubt she'll be high in the tiers.

I am no stranger to changing playing styles. SC2 Xianghua is very different from SC3 Xianghua, yet she's my main in both games.

and i thought her f throw was decently strong in melee. excellent.
It didn't KO Fox at 169% on Final Destination (with DI). No, it was not decently strong. It was just a good KO-move that was a guaranteed once you got a grab off at 150-160% (character-dependant).

[RyokoYaksa]

1) You doubt the game has noticable more freeze frames than Melee (or, well, any fighting game in fighting game history since the advent of the later Super NES games)? Even jabs have noticable freeze frames now.
2) How greatly was it reduced?
1. Peach's Dsmash (the move we are discussing) has less hitlag in Brawl than it does in Melee. Your debating tactic is known as "putting words into one's mouth" and that tends to piss off people, btw. And I'm not an exception.

And for the record, I don't doubt the game's hitlag mechanic has changed somewhat. What I do think, is that your judgement of how this (and other things you're arguing elsewhere) will affect break the game as a whole is retarded and requires a reading of Chicken Little.

2. The reduction in range was overstated like many of the reports from the E for All demo. It's not huge at all, if there was was even one to accurately observe with the provided timeframe. When people were intially playing the PAL version of Melee, we heared reports of Death Turnips being lower and item pulls being removed entirely. We all know that that was complete load of bull****.

[Yuna]

1. Peach's Dsmash (the move we are discussing) has less hitlag in Brawl than it does in Melee. Your debating tactic is known as "putting words into one's mouth" and that tends to piss off people, btw. And I'm not an exception.
"Your whole tirade on the hitlag in this game (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3484244#), like I said before, is akin to the threat of the sky falling."

Kinda sounds like you were bringing my previous talks about the general freeze frame issues of the game into this. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but that was my interpretation of it. You could've just said that the move itself has much less freeze frames.

And for the record, I don't doubt the game's hitlag mechanic has changed somewhat. What I do think, is that your judgement of how this (and other things you're arguing elsewhere) will affect break the game as a whole is retarded and requires a reading of Chicken Little.
Directional Influence is still in the game. It's almost the exact same from what I hear. Of course more freeze frames will affect the gameplay. It'll become virtually impossible to miss a DI or DI wrong unless it's a fast throw or, I don't know, a jab.

2. The reduction in range was overstated like many of the reports from the E for All demo. It's not huge at all, if there was was even one to accurately observe with the provided timeframe. When people were intially playing the PAL version of Melee, we heared reports of Death Turnips being lower and item pulls being removed entirely. We all know that that was complete load of bull****.
I just restated what I'd heard. I'm sorry if this was incorrect.

[RyokoYaksa]

Kinda sounds like you were bringing my previous talks about the general freeze frame issues of the game into this. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but that was my interpretation of it. You could've just said that the move itself has much less freeze frames.

Directional Influence is still in the game. It's almost the exact same from what I hear. Of course more freeze frames will affect the gameplay. It'll become virtually impossible to miss a DI or DI wrong unless it's a fast throw or, I don't know, a jab.

The reason why I'm annoyed by the majority of your complaints is that I've yet to see a solid reason why they are bad for the game as a whole. Particularly because, this is still a demo. If anyone remembered the beta build of Melee, a lot of the moves were pretty messed up, not the least of which were Link's Arrows being powerful KO moves.

[Yuna]

The reason why I'm annoyed by the majority of your complaints is that I've yet to see a solid reason why they are bad for the game as a whole. Particularly because, this is still a demo. If anyone remembered the beta build of Melee, a lot of the moves were pretty messed up, not the least of which were Link's Arrows being powerful KO moves.
And a big annoyance for me is people using "This is just a beta" as an argument. Well, at the moment, it's all we have to go on.

If we can't criticize the game based on the beta, how can we praise it? Or talk about it at all. Disqualifying all criticism on the basis of "It's a beta" means disqualifying all talks about the game whatsoever. After all, who can say for certain that they won't randomly remove Ike in the finalized version on a whim? It's possible, just like how they might fix the freeze frame problems (which I have presented valid arguments for why they're bad for the game).

So could we please stop using "It's just a beta!" as an argument least we plan on closing up the Brawl boards?

[Torchik]

>_> Let's calm down you two, can't we all be right? ^_^

Anyway, I would love for her upB to push higher. I don't really have any techniques except getting back to the stage, and this should help me greatly!

[RyokoYaksa]

I didn't say "don't criticize." However, obviously terrible issues with the game actually get fixed in beta phases, which is why their presence in the demo should be taken with a grain of salt. Looking closer though, these things that break the entire balance of the game so as to mismatch player skill don't exist right now. Since you appear to be blowing these things out of proportion though, I felt it most appropriate to play the "demo" card. And this all still deserves a reference to Chicken Little.

I have seen your other thread about "freeze frames," and none of the reasons listed particularly blew up my skirt. But that's something for another topic.

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

I should have never mentioned her downsmash, the souls lost to the posting of that comment...

[Torchik]

T_T Agreed. You created a clash of the titans.

[RyokoYaksa]

Yes. I acted badly.

[Torchik]

Good job! Admittance is the first step. ^_^ Anyway, to keep things on topic...how badly was her second jump nerfed? I used that thing a lot, for escaping or just to annoy people.

[Yuna]

I didn't say "don't criticize." However, obviously terrible issues with the game actually get fixed in beta phases, which is why their presence in the demo should be taken with a grain of salt. Looking closer though, these things that break the entire balance of the game so as to mismatch player skill don't exist right now. Since you appear to be blowing these things out of proportion though, I felt it most appropriate to play the "demo" card. And this all still deserves a reference to Chicken Little.

I have seen your other thread about "freeze frames," and none of the reasons listed particularly blew up my skirt. But that's something for another topic.
Freeze frames, however, aren't a part of those "glitches that will probably get fixed". They've been just as horrendous ever since the very first trailer was released (the big one back in May of 2005) and it's obvious Nintendo isn't above making games slower, laggier, freezier and easier to hit confirm by inserting huge freeze frames, tLoZ: Twiligt Princess considered.

I didn't say that the freeze frames ruin the game. However, it's a part of a big ball of wax that together is making Brawl a much less competitive game than Smash. For one thing, freeze frames slow down the game considerably (on top of the general slowness, floatiness and lack of techniques which make you master in the game). For another, it simplifies the game. With freeze frames comes more reaction time. DI will be a breeze, it will be almost virtually impossible to not DI/mis-DI an attack now.

Which all results in a less tournament worthy game. While most probably still a lot fun in friendlies, I foresee that the depth of the game will be much more shallow than Melee.

[airgemini]

It was really reduced compared to the melee second jump....I wonder why they did it, was it necissary?......I dont like how the umbrella looks..The pole just looks too long to me but thats okay.

[Penguyen]

It was really reduced compared to the melee second jump....I wonder why they did it, was it necissary?......I dont like how the umbrella looks..The pole just looks too long to me but thats okay.

I guess it's because her recovery was somewhat broken in melee. At least she has a faster double jump since she doesn't have to cover much height.
As for her parasol, i like its overall look. More Peachy...

[Blu-ninja]

heres an idea.


dont get launched.


no launch= no need for parasol.

use toad wisely and you wont have to resort to UP+B ing....

im glad its faster though....so ive heard.

[xenogears23]

i don;t mind nerfing the second jump a little since up b seems to reach much higher now and will give probably about the same height

HOWEVER

if we can;t fast fall ....that means all that height really IS a curse...because we will be stuck in the air for a long time...vulnerable...and unable to do anything

melee peach can get a lot of air via her second jump without sacrificing her mobility or air moves AND can get back down quickly with or without the parasol.

this amendment to the up b/second jump seems really crappy to me...or at least not being able to fast fall with the parasol...

btw people...stay on topic sheesh---enough about her dsmash

[kzee]

While the vertical distance of her double jump has been reduced in Brawl, there's still hope of recovering vertically. In that beginning of the video posted on the first page of this thread, Peach climbed her way up to the 3rd platform just by peach bombing the hell out of everyone. So imagine doing that on walls while recovering, you probably won't even need to use her parasol to get back on stage.

[Joecool]

her down B also been nerfed quite a bit too

[airgemini]

Yeah that was unfortunate....I loved her turnips it was a major part of my game...I'll still use them though.

[Joecool]

also her spin attack too

[airgemini]

I dont mind that one much.

[Joecool]

I liked her spin attack that used to do alot of damage. Did she receive any buffs to any her moves?

[iron blade]

her jump was kind of broken in melee, but they didn't need to nerf it to the extent that they did. i'm just grateful that you can grab the edge while facing away from it now. countless times in melee i would reach the edge with her parasol but i would die because i was facing the wrong way.