What's the big secret?

[susu_atari]

It seems a little strange to me that Kirby was not usable in the E4A demo.

Of the characters that have been confirmed so far, there were seven characters not present at the demo. The lack of Wario, Ice Climbers, Snake and Lucas can be attributed to retaining secrecy around their final smashes. Zelda obviously wasn't playable because of Sheik, and Pokemon Trainer... well, I dunno, that's anybody's guess...

But then we have Kirby. We've seen him in action, we've seen his Final Smash... although, we haven't actually had a special moves update for him, which makes me think that there might be quite a big reason for leaving him out.

My theory? He can swallow and copy Assist Trophies, possibly Pokemon. My basis for this is purely that he wasn't included, despite being Sakurai's "mascot". Although there are a number of possible theories, this one happens to be my favourite.


EDIT:
Just to clarify, are we all in agreement that there IS a big Kirby secret? It seems likely to me, as I see no other reason not to allow people to play as him in the demo, especially as he IS Sakurai's own character...

[VanillaMummy]

It seems a little strange to me that Kirby was not usable in the E4A demo.

Of the characters that have been confirmed so far, there were seven characters not present at the demo. The lack of Wario, Ice Climbers, Snake and Lucas can be attributed to retaining secrecy around their final smashes. Zelda obviously wasn't playable because of Sheik, and Pokemon Trainer... well, I dunno, that's anybody's guess...

But then we have Kirby. We've seen him in action, we've seen his Final Smash... although, we haven't actually had a special moves update for him, which makes me think that there might be quite a big reason for leaving him out.

My theory? He can swallow and copy Assist Trophies, possibly Pokemon. My basis for this is purely that he wasn't included, despite being Sakurai's "mascot". Although there are a number of possible theories, this one happens to be my favourite.

Interesting idea, but I doubt he would be able to copy all of the ATs. Maybe he can inhale Pokemon and get their attribute (fire, water, etc.) and not necessarily the abilities and appearance of each (as that would be too much coding and modeling).

Also, maybe he wasn't included because his copying of Sonic produced far too many lulz.

[lukintosh]

This has been discussed, I think the most logical answer would be the creation of the Kirby hats. Hopefully its a "MEGA BUF***E UBERPWNZ3R PLAN" for Kirbz

[susu_atari]

This has been discussed, I think the most logical answer would be the creation of the Kirby hats. Hopefully its a "MEGA BUF***E UBERPWNZ3R PLAN" for Kirbz

Yeah, but it didn't have a thread, yet.
Also, it could be that Nintendo wanted Sonic playable over Kirby, as the "Sonic Hat" wasn't finished yet. Sonic may have only just been added, for all we know.

From the 12/10/07 update (English, sorry... 10/12/07 for the US):
"The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable."

[t!MmY]

My thoughts:

Seems to me that they put Kirby low on the list because they really wanted to get all the new characters and things finalized before working on a character that could in theory have very few changes made to him. Once they had all that well under way, they started work on Kirby and there will definitely be changes for him. But this was probably right about when the demo disk was being made, so instead of including a Kirby that was soon to be very out-dated they left him out all together.

I also think that they want to keep a lot of changes made to Kirby secret for now. They might surprise us with something cool they added or modified later (Kirby hats!), but I think we still won't see everything until Brawl's release and we get to play the finalized Kirby.

As I'm sure you're all aware, Kirby was apparently unchanged in the early videos of Brawl. Now we're seeing some things here and there that even contradict previous "official" evidence. You'll notice that nothing had been shown of his Swallow up until very recently ... and even then it's a Star Shot and still no Copy.

Yes, Kirby is going to be different, most likely better, but it's being kept under wraps for now.

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

Quite interesting indeed although i doubt that nintendo would create a demo disc instead of that being made in to the wii itself. kirby is probably given some new abilities to make up for meelee.

[Al Calnos]

He was seen in the Subspace videos on Gametrailers and two notable changes are a new dash attack (supposedly the YoYo Kirby dash attack) and a new air Hammer animation (its horizontal now and looks a little stronger).

I'm sure some good changes are being made to Kirby, but I'm sure the reason for his absence is a mix of the hats and Sakurai's modesty and he probably wanted to show off Meta Knight more than Kirby, but I'm not ruling out any "big surprises" he has in store for us concerning everyone's favorite puffball.

[GOTM]

interesting ideas, i really haven't thought of most of these things until now. i like the idea that there's still so many secrets....

waluigi pleeaaasseee!!!!!!!

[Elec Man EXE]

I'd say there's a very good chance the reason he wasn't included was because of his hats he gets from copying other characters. Whether they're just not finished, or they just don't want to show them yet, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure thats the reason.

Either that, or its because they specifically didn't want to include every character in the demo. And since Kirby is one of the "least upgraded" characters (visually), they figured he'd be a good canidate to be excluded.

[jwj442]

One change I think would be nice is to let Kirby copy any B move. You could choose which one to copy by pressing a direction as you swallowed - pressing no direction replaces your B with theirs like usual, pressing up as you swallow replaces your Up + B with theirs, etc.

I think Kirby will get some of his former glory back. People who have played Brawl say that while Fox is worse, he's still pretty good and isn't totally nerfed like Kirby was in Melee. Hopefully they'll also be able to find a good middle ground with Kirby. I'll probably stick with him regardless at least as one of my secondaries just because I like him, though.

[Dynamism]

A few times it has been posted but I''ll repeat it :p ^_^

If they "delayed" this game to make "additions/adjustments" it could possibly be something for a character(s) and considering the all mighty Kirby Hats are actually based off of every single character, that (the hats, which involves Kirby) would also be something to tamper with. So it generally would be left as a major priority for the trail end of developpement. Given that Kirby will be (hopefully) balanced out, this will also give them a chance to re-think his basic format and incorperate it accordingly because the rest of the roster (hopefully balanced roster) will be complete or at least almost, henceforth providing a decent refference regarding any "un-nerfing" (aka Side B in the air and Dash A etc...)

It's easier to get the bugs out of the system when you can see the bugs clearly. And sadly Kirbys ultra tonning-down (along with Ness) from 64 to melee was a big bunch of bugs in a basket :laugh:
I wouldn't be surprised if Fox and Marth etc, were late in the process of this game too :ohwell:

I just repeated what the rest of you were saying really :)

But another factor would be that Kirby is just THE FREAKIN COOLEST and they don't want him to overshadow Meta Knight :laugh:

[Chepe]

As I have noted in some of the other threads, Kirby was likely not in the demo because he took up more information than other characters. Most of the characters not present in the demo can also be absent for the same reason...

Trainer: 3 in 1
Wario: Fart buildup mechanic
Ice Climbers: Duo
Zelda: Transformation?
Kirby: Copy Hat data

Kirby fits right in with these. Lucas and Snake are unexplainable at this point. My guess would be that their movesets are special and secretive. Snake with his non melee smash attacks, and Lucas' moveset being strangely restricted on the site...

[TidalSpiral]

You know what would be cool? If they had more Kirby enemy assist trophies, and you could absorb classic Kirby powers (for instance, Knuckle Joe turns you into the Fighter Kirby or something). I'd really like to use some of his actual game copies instead of just other fighters but it's just an idea.

[Al Calnos]

You know what would be cool? If they had more Kirby enemy assist trophies, and you could absorb classic Kirby powers (for instance, Knuckle Joe turns you into the Fighter Kirby or something). I'd really like to use some of his actual game copies instead of just other fighters but it's just an idea.

Though that sounds kinda interesting, but correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Kirby already use some Fighter Kirby moves?

[Viper JLT4GOV]

Put Plasma Wisp in the game, that would be colder than Knuckle Joe.

[TidalSpiral]

Though that sounds kinda interesting, but correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Kirby already use some Fighter Kirby moves?

Perhaps some but they could use modified versions of Joe's attacks for a copy anyway. Besides that I just mean any classic Kirby enemies, like cracking open a box and a bomb elf is there. For everyone else it's just a threat but Kirby can suck it in and get his bomb throwing skills. Or an ice one, or fire sword or anything.

[JusDBerube]

Maybe the secret is that when Kirby gets the Smash Ball while he has another characters stolen move that he does their Final Smash (or a Kirbyfied version of it). Think about it. When you steal someones move with Kirby you use Neutral B to do that move. You also use that button to activate the Final Smash. It really wouldn't surprise me if you could steal the Final Smash as well.

[Magnacor]

Maybe the secret is that when Kirby gets the Smash Ball while he has another characters stolen move that he does their Final Smash (or a Kirbyfied version of it). Think about it. When you steal someones move with Kirby you use Neutral B to do that move. You also use that button to activate the Final Smash. It really wouldn't surprise me if you could steal the Final Smash as well.

That, is a pretty good idea. It would definetely be hard to implement every Final Smash in the game twice, Sakurai would probably want to make his creation cooler, and that would be a big enough feature that Sakurai would want to reveal it himself. I was thinking he could inhale a couple items to get their power (Beam Sword makes you Sword Kirby, Fire Flower makes you Fire Kirby, etc.) but your idea would make more sense.

[TidalSpiral]

In reference to JusDBerube's Idea:

That is completely brilliant and would make Kirby much more intriguing. Epic win idea right there, even if it's not implemented.

[JusDBerube]

Glad you like the idea. Just give me some props if I'm right. I know I'm more of a lurker here but yeah. I don't recall seeing this idea and it came to me while thinking about why Kirby wasn't shown. Sorry if it's already been suggested.

[smashbot226]

As I have noted in some of the other threads, Kirby was likely not in the demo because he took up more information than other characters. Most of the characters not present in the demo can also be absent for the same reason...

Trainer: 3 in 1
Wario: Fart buildup mechanic
Ice Climbers: Duo
Zelda: Transformation?
Kirby: Copy Hat data

Kirby fits right in with these. Lucas and Snake are unexplainable at this point. My guess would be that their movesets are special and secretive. Snake with his non melee smash attacks, and Lucas' moveset being strangely restricted on the site...

Now why would they ignore Wario because of the FARTING???

[Magnacor]

Now why would they ignore Wario because of the FARTING???

Chepe's saying that it would be hard to have his stomach get bigger over time. I don't think that this would, at all, be an issue any more than Samus being able to hold a charged shot from her laser which we all know wasn't an issue. I think that he just wasn't added because Sakurai wanted to reveal Wario's Final Smash on his own accord. But I'm getting off topic.

@JusDBerube if your idea is correct I won't just give you some props, I'll give you every prop on the planet.

[TheMastermind]

The Kirby character has already been developed and balenced for this game.
I find it extreamly strange that he wasnt in the demo.
I think it might just be because Meta knight already represented the series, and they wanted to represent another series. Meta knight is more flashy and is probably liked by noobs more than kirby.

[UsernameLink]

Because of the long delay, the updates need to be filled up of 1 kirby hat in 1 random day

j/k. But if that final smash idea works out, i am very impressed, would be cool too ^_^

[PrettyGoodYear]

I can't believe METAKNIGHT was playable over KIRBY.

There are a lot of things wrong with that.

[Silent_Hill_Crossing]

The Kirby character has already been developed and balenced for this game.
I find it extreamly strange that he wasnt in the demo.
I think it might just be because Meta knight already represented the series, and they wanted to represent another series. Meta knight is more flashy and is probably liked by noobs more than kirby.

Are you saying anyone who likes MK over Kirby is a noob?


>_>


And the likely reason Kirby wasn't in the demo was because of the Kirby Hats. Giving so many out would kill the coming update for it, which will happen sooner or later.

[SithLordR2D2]

I would really like it if just one day the announced how kirby's suck was going to work and showed every hat. That would make me completely happy.

I like the idea of sucking up certain items and gaining powers from past games. I've been wanting that to happen since I played SSB 64. I definitely think they should allow kirby to get his powers from his actual games, as well as powers from the seperate characters, whether this is through assist trophies, items, etc.

[Jimtopia]

I had that idea a long time ago, Kirby having the abilitiy to suck in items or trophies or pokemon or something. Could be cool, but really we wont know until we play. I think this has a pretty good chance of being true.

[Magnacor]

I had that idea a long time ago, Kirby having the abilitiy to suck in items or trophies or pokemon or something. Could be cool, but really we wont know until we play. I think this has a pretty good chance of being true.

I'm pretty sure anyone who has ever played a Kirby game had that idea at some point. I always though that it would be cool to see Kirby eat a Fire Flower and turn into Fire Kirby, but the cold, hard truth is, there would be a lot of hats to make. If you added extra powers for Kirby's copy abilities you would have to make them simple enough to implement into the game without them taking up significant space on the disk. That is why copying Final Smashes is so likely: they are already in the game so it would just be a simple matter of making Kirby use them. Giga Kirby for the win!

[kikenff]

I dont think kirby will get powers from items, but id love to copy final smashes.

Giga kirby ftw. :laugh:

[tennisthehilife]

I dont think kirby will get powers from items, but id love to copy final smashes.

Giga kirby ftw. :laugh:
I love just about every final smash, can't go wrong with any.
-Mario's giant kamehameha fire blast.
-Link's + Ike's sword combo finishers.
-Yoshi's
-Fox's barrel roll!!!

Wait how would kirby use Samus/Zamus + Pokemon Trainer's Final smashes?

And I wonder what Ice Climber's final smash is. I'm very interested in that fs for some reason.


I don't really care too much about sucking items but copying SSE enemies would be awesome.
Kirby's copy ability as it was in Melee is fine with me, just improve the B attacks or maybe copy different attacks, but no changing kirby's stats. Wings ok.

[Lgndknight]

They can't figure out Kirby's MK hat, without looking exactly the same? lol

[xianfeng]

They dont' want to reveal the Kirby Cheat.

[retro gamer 6]

yeah i'm glad that fox got nerfed. and it looks like kirby may have a lot of surpeises. i just hope they're good ones.

[da K.I.D.]

i think that:
#1 kirby and ness( if included)will both be much more balanced out with the other characters and the tiers will be much more hard to tell
#2 kirby should be able to absorb any B move. You suck them up press the button combo for whatever B move you want ex: >B after swallow to copy the cape, ^B to copy fire fox and so on.
3# kirby should be able to absorb peoples final smashes while they have the smash ball. think how awesome a kirby would be raining PK meteors on every one cause lets be honest they could have come up with something better than "cook" and it would actually make him a better yet not broken character.
and #4 kirby should actually get status upgrades with his copies ex: more weight with bowser, run faster with sonic, more power with ike to the point ware he should have a power at all times just to make to make him a better char. with the bonuses I think all of these upgrades will make him a stronger, fresher, funner and better char. to use all around

[da K.I.D.]

i think that:
#1 kirby and ness( if included)will both be much more balanced out with the other characters and the tiers will be much more hard to tell
#2 kirby should be able to absorb any B move. You suck them up press the button combo for whatever B move you want ex: >B after swallow to copy the cape, ^B to copy fire fox and so on.
3# kirby should be able to absorb peoples final smashes while they have the smash ball. think how awesome a kirby would be raining PK meteors on every one cause lets be honest they could have come up with something better than "cook" and it would actually make him a better yet not broken character.
and #4 kirby should actually get status upgrades with his copies ex: more weight with bowser, run faster with sonic, more power with ike to the point ware he should have a power at all times just to make to make him a better char. with the bonuses I think all of these upgrades will make him a stronger, fresher, funner and better char. to use all around

[da K.I.D.]

sory didnt mean to double post

[Viper JLT4GOV]

They dont' want to reveal the Kirby Cheat.

That was the best post I saw right now, I love Kirby cheats.

[silver777]

these hats makes a good update.

[Zek]

You guys assume way to much about Kirby's exclusion from the E4All demo. He was completely playable for the SSE videos so he obviously wasn't receiving some major overhaul.

I think Sakurai just wanted to keep some secrets instead of spilling everything in that demo. So he arbitrarily chose some characters to hold back - Wario, Pokemon Trainer, Snake, Lucas, Kirby, Zelda, and the Ice Climbers. I'm sure they were all finished and playable, there's no reason whatsoever to think otherwise. There's no way in hell they were that far behind schedule.