InfinityCollision
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
- Messages
- 1,245
Old general thread's been dead for over a year and I need a semi-relevant place to drop random Mewtwo thoughts, so here we go.
Wavelands are amazing. Simple, fundamental tech, but arguably still underappreciated. SH bair and uair both have easy waveland windows, Mewtwo can obviously waveland out of hover anything, things like full hop uair->platform waveland are super underused, etc. Speaking of platforms, that momentum platform drop thing Luigi players are doing? It's good for Mewtwo too. We have a lot of interesting options in the air that give the technique great utility. Hovers with momentum, b-reverse/turnaround/wavebounce SBC shenanigans for positioning, combinations of the two, etc. Be creative!
I was going to say something about not getting quite as much velocity out of it as Luigi, but it turns out that's less true than I expected. Mewtwo does get less distance, but comparing them side-by-side (simultaneous jump inputs while standing on a platform) yields surprising information: despite Mewtwo's lower fall speed, Luigi spends more time in the air due to differences in their platform drop animations. They land simultaneously from Dreamland's side platforms; Luigi lands one frame later on Battlefield. It'd probably be 1-2 frames later on Warioware, I didn't check. Luigi's slight advantage in distance travelled is largely a result of this extra airtime.
Plus Luigi gets to perfect waveland into/out of it if he wants to, so there's that. Scoot scoot. Or he can just land and slide another platform-width because who needs friction anyway?
Mewtwo's wavelands are admittedly kind of gross, as much as I just hyped them up. Can only perfect waveland from his "backwards movement" aerial animation, and the ECB on the forward/neutral animations can (positioning varies slightly) extend so low relative to his airdodge that he may spend an extra frame or two in airdodge when he wavelands from it, diminishing his momentum for the waveland and thus reducing distance traveled as compared to a wavedash. Eww. Mewtwo doesn't have time for that, he's tryna scoot scoot fast-like with buttery perfect wavelands. I've brought this up before but PMDT please, give us new airtime animations with more favorable ECB properties. I'll make a silly video to celebrate if you do. Seriously.
Remember when Mewtwo was part of a three-way tie for second fastest pokemon in Gen I? Apparently even now he's in a six-way tie for fourteenth, and Mega Mewtwo Y ties for tenth. Mew2fast. Sometimes I see Mewtwo players move fast in bursts, but Mewtwo can also be fluid and maintain that sense of speed/continuous motion over greater periods of time. The great thing about Mewtwo's movement is the way it all fits together, even if doing so takes some time and thought. If you're moving around and suddenly lose momentum - not give it up, remaining still is a viable option sometimes - stop and revisit that situation. Chances are you could do something differently. And with the way Mewtwo can turn around on a dime both on the ground and in the air, you always have some control over where you're going.
Everyone knows about bair and uair blast zone carries, but Mewtwo's carries near the ground can be just as potent while retaining a greater degree of control over the situation. Controlled hits, resets, keep all your options open. Smaller hits can potentially lead to what you were going for anyway, or something just as good, while tacking on slightly more damage. Don't overextend, and don't be afraid to "pause" every now and then to observe and react to your opponent's behavior if the next option isn't guaranteed. If you can't cover their option then you lose nothing (and potentially avoid a reversal), if you can then you potentially get far more mileage via "soft resetting" the situation and starting a fresh combo.
New fair spacing means new followups on shield if we want to continue pressure in an optimal manner. Not necessarily bad, but different. Eventual retreat is generally still your opponent's best option, which is where the mindgames start. Still think jab1 should have 6 frames startup. Ftilt buff is pretty cool though.
Much to practice, still more to learn...
Maybe controversial thought: After playing around with DJC telehovers in 3.5, I feel that grounded teleport into hover could have a place in Mewtwo's kit without being abusive, centralizing, or overpowered. Easy and relatively safe horizontal approaches with aerials were what made it such an issue in 3.02; without the ability to jump->telehover that option is almost entirely gone and it mostly falls into place as an option for platform techchases, risky but potentially rewarding combo extensions, etc. Fits nicely into the way he already makes constant decisions regarding positioning, conservation vs use of double jump, etc and is arguably more intuitive than allowing double jump out of teleport but not hover. Not that I actually expect this to happen, 3.02 damn near gave people PTSD over certain things. Fun to dream about though.
Other dreamy-stuff: Mewtwo's dash attack momentum adjusted so that both timings get full momentum for DACUS. Teleport able to travel through a platform you're standing on - maybe complicated by the nature of the Clone Engine and Lucario's upb? Hmmm. Sometimes I contemplate Mewtwo with instant double jump lands and a two frame platform no impact DJL window like Yoshi, then I realize that might mess up his ledgedash (which has invincibility for a few frames beyond the end of landfallspecial when executed correctly). Maybe if his accelerations on the following frames were adjusted to compensate? Dunno, but again it's fun to think about even if it'll probably never happen. Reliable platform DJLs would be awesome.
That was longer than I meant for it to be. Guess that's what I get for leaving it open for a few hours and adding stuff periodically. Much to share.
Wavelands are amazing. Simple, fundamental tech, but arguably still underappreciated. SH bair and uair both have easy waveland windows, Mewtwo can obviously waveland out of hover anything, things like full hop uair->platform waveland are super underused, etc. Speaking of platforms, that momentum platform drop thing Luigi players are doing? It's good for Mewtwo too. We have a lot of interesting options in the air that give the technique great utility. Hovers with momentum, b-reverse/turnaround/wavebounce SBC shenanigans for positioning, combinations of the two, etc. Be creative!
I was going to say something about not getting quite as much velocity out of it as Luigi, but it turns out that's less true than I expected. Mewtwo does get less distance, but comparing them side-by-side (simultaneous jump inputs while standing on a platform) yields surprising information: despite Mewtwo's lower fall speed, Luigi spends more time in the air due to differences in their platform drop animations. They land simultaneously from Dreamland's side platforms; Luigi lands one frame later on Battlefield. It'd probably be 1-2 frames later on Warioware, I didn't check. Luigi's slight advantage in distance travelled is largely a result of this extra airtime.
Plus Luigi gets to perfect waveland into/out of it if he wants to, so there's that. Scoot scoot. Or he can just land and slide another platform-width because who needs friction anyway?
Mewtwo's wavelands are admittedly kind of gross, as much as I just hyped them up. Can only perfect waveland from his "backwards movement" aerial animation, and the ECB on the forward/neutral animations can (positioning varies slightly) extend so low relative to his airdodge that he may spend an extra frame or two in airdodge when he wavelands from it, diminishing his momentum for the waveland and thus reducing distance traveled as compared to a wavedash. Eww. Mewtwo doesn't have time for that, he's tryna scoot scoot fast-like with buttery perfect wavelands. I've brought this up before but PMDT please, give us new airtime animations with more favorable ECB properties. I'll make a silly video to celebrate if you do. Seriously.
Remember when Mewtwo was part of a three-way tie for second fastest pokemon in Gen I? Apparently even now he's in a six-way tie for fourteenth, and Mega Mewtwo Y ties for tenth. Mew2fast. Sometimes I see Mewtwo players move fast in bursts, but Mewtwo can also be fluid and maintain that sense of speed/continuous motion over greater periods of time. The great thing about Mewtwo's movement is the way it all fits together, even if doing so takes some time and thought. If you're moving around and suddenly lose momentum - not give it up, remaining still is a viable option sometimes - stop and revisit that situation. Chances are you could do something differently. And with the way Mewtwo can turn around on a dime both on the ground and in the air, you always have some control over where you're going.
Everyone knows about bair and uair blast zone carries, but Mewtwo's carries near the ground can be just as potent while retaining a greater degree of control over the situation. Controlled hits, resets, keep all your options open. Smaller hits can potentially lead to what you were going for anyway, or something just as good, while tacking on slightly more damage. Don't overextend, and don't be afraid to "pause" every now and then to observe and react to your opponent's behavior if the next option isn't guaranteed. If you can't cover their option then you lose nothing (and potentially avoid a reversal), if you can then you potentially get far more mileage via "soft resetting" the situation and starting a fresh combo.
New fair spacing means new followups on shield if we want to continue pressure in an optimal manner. Not necessarily bad, but different. Eventual retreat is generally still your opponent's best option, which is where the mindgames start. Still think jab1 should have 6 frames startup. Ftilt buff is pretty cool though.
Much to practice, still more to learn...
Maybe controversial thought: After playing around with DJC telehovers in 3.5, I feel that grounded teleport into hover could have a place in Mewtwo's kit without being abusive, centralizing, or overpowered. Easy and relatively safe horizontal approaches with aerials were what made it such an issue in 3.02; without the ability to jump->telehover that option is almost entirely gone and it mostly falls into place as an option for platform techchases, risky but potentially rewarding combo extensions, etc. Fits nicely into the way he already makes constant decisions regarding positioning, conservation vs use of double jump, etc and is arguably more intuitive than allowing double jump out of teleport but not hover. Not that I actually expect this to happen, 3.02 damn near gave people PTSD over certain things. Fun to dream about though.
Other dreamy-stuff: Mewtwo's dash attack momentum adjusted so that both timings get full momentum for DACUS. Teleport able to travel through a platform you're standing on - maybe complicated by the nature of the Clone Engine and Lucario's upb? Hmmm. Sometimes I contemplate Mewtwo with instant double jump lands and a two frame platform no impact DJL window like Yoshi, then I realize that might mess up his ledgedash (which has invincibility for a few frames beyond the end of landfallspecial when executed correctly). Maybe if his accelerations on the following frames were adjusted to compensate? Dunno, but again it's fun to think about even if it'll probably never happen. Reliable platform DJLs would be awesome.
That was longer than I meant for it to be. Guess that's what I get for leaving it open for a few hours and adding stuff periodically. Much to share.